"We wants us some more Lebensraum, baby!" Topic

Not content with the chaotic and bloody mess they've created in Ukraine, Russia has let slip it wants to drive all the way across coastal Ukraine and then invade and seize parts of Moldova, 'cause, Russian ethnics are being oppressed, don't ya know!

Russian General Lets Slip a Secret Plan to Invade Another Country and Seize Ukraine's Entire Coastline

"One of the tasks of the Russian army is to establish full control over the Donbas and southern Ukraine. This will provide a land corridor to the Crimea, as well as influence the vital objects of the Ukrainian economy," Minnekaev said Friday at a meeting with the Union of Defense Industries, as reported by the Russian state-owned Interfax. "Control over the south of Ukraine is another way out to Transnistria, where there are also facts of oppression of the Russian-speaking population." Transnistria is a separatist region of Moldova that has so far not been officially involved in the war despite hosting a Russian military base since the 1990s.

link

I don't know what I find more amazing: that they still have a general left or that said general thinks they could attack anything after Ukraine…

Lebensraum…oppressed Ruassian-speaking population…

Is Coach Adolf back for another shot at the
champeenship ?????

Perhaps not very well-known German problem with the conquests of new Lebensraum in the east was that few Germans apparently would have been willing to settle in such conquered areas. Germans back then, and even now, tend to be fond of their home regions, and many of them don't want to relocate too far. While they may have approved with the concept of the conquests themselves, they probably assumed that "somebody else" would go and colonialise them. Thus, if the Germans had actually been able to hold their conquests in the East, the government would likely have needed to resort to unpopular forced migrations to get German people to actually settle there.

Russian people may be more willing to relocate within their large country (at least they were during the Soviet times), but they already have a diminishing demography in a country with huge land area. As for the people of the conquered areas, in Ukraine a lot of them tend to vote with their feet rather than stay to enjoy the Russian Federation "protection". My understanding is that a lot of people moved to the west from Donbass "republics" after the conflict there started in 2014-15 (and also numerous people have moved from the occupied Crimea to the rest of Ukraine after 2014).

As for Transnistria, this is a region where the local leadership wants to join Russia, and there have been 1 500 or so Russian soldiers posted on a "peace keeping mission" for a couple of decades.

I am aware of only one country and government which oppresses ethnic Russians systematically and on large scale, and that country is Russian Federation. Though in the spirit of fairness, they also seem to oppress ethnic minorities (of which there are many) at least equally.

Good analysis Griefbringer.

Nice to know Putin's Evil Empire are equal opportunity offenders!

Yeah … seems if Putin wants "Lebensraum" … they are not very good at it… fortunately …

If you believe the general… Then Elvis is alive, professional wrestling is real and we put a man on the moon. Wait the last one may be real.

Yep, and the Chinese want the same thing, which is why they're eyeing Australia.

As I already wrote elsewhere:

Putin and his cronies really believe that russia as a culture has a special role to play in the world, but is being held down by everyone, indeed should be wiped out.
Therefore, any means is fine with them to protect their rule and the motherland and to help them to old greatness.

Their wet dream is something like this:
The Third Empire

And make no mistake, a lot in russia outright believe they are on a holy mission.
For the most part, being russian means being Orthodox Christian.
And when their Patriarch Kyrill states the following, it means something to them:
"We have entered into a struggle that has not a physical, but a metaphysical significance," he said on March 6.
Tensions in the Orthodox Church over Ukraine War

Problem is, for them, it is not a science fiction fantasy enriched with some religious folklore.

Sure, they obviously lack the means for now, but they always miss that point somehow and will try over and over again.

It's their ultimate goal.
It may be their final destination.

It may be ours too.

There probably are just two factions in their regime and apparatus that really matter.
Both agree on the delusions described above.They differ only in the approach to be applied and the time horizon on which russia should act.
The bigger and more rational faction is 'Take what we can get away with for now and fight another day.', the smaller, outright crazy one can be described 'Our time is running out, let's get this thing over with now: All-In'.

Ultimately, however, Putin decides which faction will prevail.
And frankly said, I doubt he always knows, what he is doing.

Somewhere I must still have an old copy of Twillight 2000 lying around.
Have to revisit it.

Getting back to the German concept of Lebensraum, the plan may have involved all of the Eastern Europe up to the Urals, de-populating it and then colonialising it with German settlers (even resorting to forced migrations if necessary). Unlike in many other countries during WWII, in Germany women were not expected to contribute much to the war effort, instead staying home to mother and rise a new generation of Germans (which would presumably eventually provide future colonists for the new Lebensraum).

I have no idea what the Russian leadership intends to do with their conquests in Ukraine. While not as fast in conquering ground as Germans in summer 1941, the Russians seem to be rather capable in ensuring that areas they conquer are rather destroyed and de-populated. Ending up with an empty and ruined "Novorossija" by the Black Sea does not sound like a grand achievement, and re-building it would put quite some strain on the already strained Russian economy. And without re-building, it would be difficult to re-populate.

As I said on another threat … It is clear to me with nations like the UK & Germany as well as others in NATO downsized their military to the point of almost being ineffective. As they knew/thought the US would come to their aid as twice before in some cases. Many of the old NATO members thought the Russians were no longer much of a threat.

They were wrong … Now NATO is going on a footing it seems to increase their military, even if just a little. Plus sending massive material support to Ukraine.

Baby? Baby?! De Fuhrer never said, baby! What is with this baby?

I have no idea what the Russian leadership intends to do with their conquests in Ukraine

Well, this is the real question. The answer is all about the massive deposits of natural gas in the Donbas region.
Despite the assertions about de-nazification and unifying Russian speaking areas, this a war over resources.

"Follow the money" makes about the most sense.

Germans in WWII were also interested about resources, such as the Caspian oil.

But what is Russia to do with fossil fuel resources in the Eastern Ukraine? As far as domestic consumption is involved, they already have a plenty of resources all over the country.

Shipping to the rest of Europe from Eastern Ukraine would be relatively straightforward, as there are already major gas lines running in that area. However, most of the rest of Europe has decided that they want to say dosvidanje to Russian energy in the medium term, and are now eagerly looking for alternatives.

As for the markets in China and India, those are quite distant and building a new pipeline would not be practical. Of course the Black Sea ports are close by, so it would be possible to load tank ships there. However, any international sanctions for the said gas that would be enforced at the Bosphorus Straits or Suez Canal could stop such trade.

The russians lie about almost everything when they want something, except that they want to have it.

Just read some of their professional propaganda publications on the Internet.
Especially the comments on the opinion articles.
It is exactly what their leadership and elite think.

For example here:
Mark Cato:Carthage must be destroyed.And what about Ukraine?

New legitimate targets: NATO prepares to try on Finland and Sweden

It's like reading Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' or 'Der Stürmer'.
You may not believe it, because it reads like some lunatic rambling, but it is exactly what they want in the long run.

For them it is not a war against Ukraine, it is a war against USA and NATO.
Prominent Russian TV presenter says war 'against Europe and the world' is on the way following Moscow's invasion of Ukraine

And for them it is a holy war:
Deputy of the State Duma Vyacheslav Nikonov – via Julia Davis on Twitter

For a new multipolar world order composed of three world cultures.
russia, China, USA.
And they give a about what it costs the world.
Or that we make fun about their incompetence.
Because, they still have nukes.

Or that we make fun about their incompetence.
Because, they still have nukes.

Not making fun of their poor performance. I know many like me who served during Cold War, were amazed at their marginal use of combined arms, etc. We were trained to understand they would be Hell on Wheels if the crossed the IGB, etc.

Even senior officers I talk to who still are on active duty, etc. were surprised as well. If anything, we are glad that they are not a fully capable, modern, combined arms force. As it certainly has given the Ukrainians a fighting chance. As the US Sec Def said, I'm paraphing, after what we see Putin's predilections, etc. for making war. We/NATO want to attrite Putin's forces so they can't attack their neighbors, etc., again. The Ukrainians are doing a pretty good job, so far, AFAIK.

The US & NATO did not plan this, but after what was seen during this invasion. The short answer is to weaken his ability to go to war. By arming and training the Ukrainians with everything they need to do this important mission.

But yes, he has nukes, but so does the USA. Some in our leadership have failed to make the point. And make it often. Putin is a predator, like Xi, Iran, etc. They only respect strength. It seems again the US was late to the game. As soon as Putin was massing on the border months ago, we should have been arming the Ukrainians from then. With the "heavy stuff". Not wait until the hit the fan.

We are reacting to his moves. He should be reacting to the US/NATO in regard to this Chess game. I'm afraid the US leadership did not want to do anything to "upset" Putin. So, the US appeared weak, and IMO was. This was a naive, amateurish, weak, poor, etc. decision. And Putin saw that and did what he wanted to do.

He was playing Chess and the US was playing Checkers. That may be changing now ? But maybe too late ?

We always have to be concerned about not starting WWIII or anyone uses Nukes. But maybe we shouldn't have shown all our cards. Too soon ?

I think that arming the Ukrainians before the invasion would have been used by the Russians to justify the invasion.

Even now, arming them risks WW3. And that means nukes, as America is essentially inured against all other forms of attack.

But yes, he has nukes, but so does the USA. Some in our leadership have failed to make the point. And make it often.

Talking about your nukes all the time is boorish and poor diplomacy. For some reason Putin and his administration seem to resort to it every week nowadays. However, it does not make them appear strong, but rather emphasizes their inability to reach their aims with conventional means.

The rest of the world is well aware that US, UK, France, China, Russia, India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons. No need to keep on reminding about it all the time.

To comment on both your posts. When dealing with predators like Putin. Who already sees the US Leadership as weak, confused, naive, etc. You must come from a place of strength, that is all his ilk will respect.

Arming Ukrainian as soon a Putin was massing on the border may have deterred him. If not and he crossed the border. Look how well the Ukrainians are doing now. What if they had all they need back then ? Short answer – more dead Russians …

By reminding that the US/NATO has Nukes. When he mentions nukes, only lets him know … maybe not all options are off the table ?

And NATO is together and stopping his attack is a priority. I don't think he thought NATO would be recharged to form a deterrence to Russian aggression. NATO's original mission …

He knows to use tac nukes which is in Russian tactical doctrine, he may not get away with it.

It is to no one's advantage to start WWIII – I.e. worse case MAD.

The Sec Def just said when asked what would we do if Putin used nukes. He didn't commit either way what our reaction would be … So IMO he was "channeling" Sun Tzu, to paraphrase "All war is a matter of deception." … We are not going to show all our cards it seems now, but it may be too late ?

Bottom line – Don't start WWIII or the use of nukes but don't show your enemy all your cards …

Or will the Ukraine be sacrificed with the fear starting WWIII and use of nukes ?

When dealing with predators like Putin. Who already sees the US Leadership as weak, confused, naive, etc. You must come from a place of strength, that is all his ilk will respect.

Arguably that is one thing democracies are very bad at and I for one am happy to except that trade off to avoid the kind of politicians that think strong-speaking would solve a problem like Putin. I've also read articles that basically say assuming liberal democracies are weak because they don't engage in that strong-speaking with some kind unified voice is actually a massive error on Putin's, or indeed any dictators, part.

I've also read articles that basically say assuming liberal democracies are weak because they don't engage in that strong-speaking with some kind unified voice is actually a massive error on Putin's, or indeed any dictators, part.

I have seen similar statements.

Also, it is assumed that Putin underestimated the ability of international organisations, such as EU and NATO, to get their ranks organised in tough times, because they seem to bicker and quarrel about all sorts of minor issues during good times. What he may have missed is that somewhere deep underneath there was a common concensus about the fundamental issues, which may not have been so obvious. In democracies, the news headlines in politics tend to be anout those topics where there are disagreements between various groups – not about those subjects where everyone agrees.

Ukrainians may have also had stormy politics in the past, and may thus have appeared disunited – but their stubborn resistance to invasion shows that they still want to decide about issues between themselves, rather than getting told by some autocrat in Kremlin.

Arguably that is one thing democracies are very bad at and I for one am happy to except that trade off to avoid the kind of politicians that think strong-speaking would solve a problem like Putin.

Strong politicians in democracies does not equate to Putin. E.g. T.R.

I adhere to the Peace thru strength concept.

assuming liberal democracies are weak because they don't engage in that strong-speaking with some kind unified voice is actually a massive error on Putin's, or indeed any dictators, part.

No … IMO it does not mean liberal democracies are weak. However their leaders can be. And Putin was savvy, etc. enough to see that currently …

it is assumed that Putin underestimated the ability of international organisations, such as EU and NATO,

He may have, however, like many other things … he was wrong.

From the Russian point of view, it makes sense to take Odessa and land-lock what is left of Ukraine. Then, in efforts to keep Ukraine "neutral" they could use the port access to their advantage.

Yes the Russian General said it because this is what they are planning to do.

Arguably that is one thing democracies are very bad at and I for one am happy to except that trade off to avoid the kind of politicians that think strong-speaking would solve a problem like Putin.

Words backed by actions work-- there's a reason Russia didn't try this under the prior president.

Yes the Russian General said it because this is what they are planning to do.

They planned taking Kyiv too … so … The Ukrainians may have something to say about it …

Words backed by actions work-- there's a reason Russia didn't try this under the prior president.

Bingo !