Help support TMP


"Will the Swedes Go Nuclear?" Topic


21 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please be courteous toward your fellow TMP members.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Ultramodern Warfare (2012-present) Message Board

Back to the TMP Poll Suggestions Message Board


Action Log

15 Apr 2022 7:45 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Crossposted to Ultramodern Warfare (2012-present) board

Areas of Interest

General
Modern

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


881 hits since 15 Apr 2022
©1994-2022 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Thresher0115 Apr 2022 6:02 p.m. PST

It is not common knowledge that Sweden had a nuclear weapons research program during the Cold War.

Given the constant threats and incessant bleatings by Vladimir Putin and his propagandist spokespeople, aerial incursions by Russian nuclear capable bombers into Swedish airspace, as well as the real-life example of what happens to a country that gives up its own nuclear arsenal in exchange for "promises of protection" from the USA, AND a ridiculous "non-aggression" pact from Russia, it seems to me that it would only be sensible to restart the warhead research and production program immediately:

PDF link

link

Supposedly, all of the enriched uranium was surrendered, though IIRC, some material went "missing" back in the day, so perhaps the Swedes have indeed hedged their bets and are capable of assembling a small number of warheads almost immediately.

Sadly, their nuclear bomber program was canceled, so they'd need to depend upon Gripens to deliver them in one-way sorties into the Russian interior, and/or use cargo containers for a more covert "delivery method" instead.

link

1. Yes
2. No
3. No Opinion

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP15 Apr 2022 6:19 p.m. PST

Probably not, but they should at least deny it enough to make it seem like they protest too much.

Perhaps Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Sweden, Finland, and Israel should work together on nuclear weapons and then spread the cost and the work. They all have similar security problems.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek

Arjuna15 Apr 2022 8:04 p.m. PST

No, they gave it up at the height of the Cold War; they won't do it because of the nuclear threats of a second-rate regional power, that is mourning past greatness.

Grattan54 Supporting Member of TMP15 Apr 2022 8:16 p.m. PST

Maybe the US will get them to give up their nuclear program for an assurance we will protect them. It worked so well for Ukraine.

soledad16 Apr 2022 2:42 a.m. PST

Sweden will never ever "go nuclear". Nor will Sweden ever allow nuclear weapons on its soil. It will never happen. Right or wrong, but that is what it is. The Swedish social democratic party is strongly against nukes.

Griefbringer16 Apr 2022 6:19 a.m. PST

It would probably be much, faster, easier, cheaper and more effective for Sweden to join NATO than to try to develop their own nuclear armaments.

H and R16 Apr 2022 10:12 a.m. PST

I think they will join NATO but in the summer along with Finland and nothing will be said about Nuclear weapons. Europe is a very different place now.

ROUWetPatchBehindTheSofa16 Apr 2022 10:35 a.m. PST

Nukes are silly expensive. So I'd go no.

Given that Putin has made it pretty clear he's flushed the existing 'Gentleman's Agreements' around international behaviour 'Neutrality' clearly isn't what it once was. So NATO is probably on the table for discussion in Sweden (personally I think Finland's is higher certainty). I'm pretty sure a number of countries defence staff's are reckoning they could kerb stomp a contemporary invading Russian army but ultimately will have to advise their politicians that the process is going to make a very big and expensive mess so the NATO-based insurance policy to keep out in the first place may well be wise…

The interesting bit will be what Putin does when his bluff is well and truly called…

Thresher0116 Apr 2022 10:56 a.m. PST

I think they may, especially given that Putin and Russia continue to directly threaten them and others with nuclear annihilation.

I imagine if the leaders there take that seriously, as well they should given Georgia, Crimea, and Ukraine, then that significantly changes the calculus.

I suspect they still have the research and designs, so could go nuclear in a couple of years if desired. Perhaps less.

A coalition of the aforementioned countries would be a good idea. Even Germany is now reversing its previous decision on shutting down their nuke powerplants, and are reembracing that tech in light of Russia's energy blackmail and actions in Ukraine.

I expect both Finland and Sweden will join NATO, but I could be wrong on that. Time will tell, and I imagine we'll know before the end of the Summer.

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP16 Apr 2022 11:30 a.m. PST

The threat of Nuclear weapons is enough to make even the biggest melomaniac think twice…I hope!

soledad16 Apr 2022 12:05 p.m. PST

Sweden did have a nuclear weapons program a long time ago. But it no longer has one. Sweden have a few nuclear reactors for producing electricity but they are not capable of producing weapons grade plutonium.

Finally, Sweden will NEVER produce or keep nuclear weapons. It just won't happen. Even if Sweden joins nato Sweden will most likely not allow nukes on Swedish soil.

The ruling government party for the moment, the social democrats do not like nukes at all. Especially not US nukes, the socialists actually dislikes and distrusts USA. They are Much more comfortable with Russia. The social democrats are a scary bunch as they try to appear as a liberal progressive party but in the curtains they are commie socialists.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP16 Apr 2022 1:34 p.m. PST

Nope – why would they? They can avoid the domestic political minefield that would involve by joining NATO, which after all does have plenty of nukes

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP16 Apr 2022 3:27 p.m. PST

Arjuna, you'll have to spell out which second-rate power mourning past greatness you mean. I can think of four including my own.

And wouldn't it be cheaper for the Swedes to wait for the collapse of the US, and then buy some of the inevitable loose nukes? Looks as though our senior people will happily sell out anyone for another star and a book deal.

Arjuna16 Apr 2022 8:49 p.m. PST

Lieber Herr Piepenbrink,

wasn't that one of the reasons why the Swedes remained neutral all along?

Regarding the 'collapse of the US', isn't reinventing itself over and over again its successful business principle and strength?

In terms of selling off business inventory in liquidation, nuclear weapons appear to have been a slow seller, at least in the 1990s.
;-)

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP17 Apr 2022 10:09 a.m. PST

No … as mentioned if Sweden and Finland join NATO, the US has enough nukes for all.

Thresher0117 Apr 2022 12:08 p.m. PST

"Regarding the 'collapse of the US', isn't reinventing itself over and over again its successful business principle and strength?".

Not in the current context, when "destruction from within" seems like a more apt description.

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP19 Apr 2022 8:38 a.m. PST

No, never.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP19 Apr 2022 9:41 a.m. PST

when "destruction from within" seems like a more apt description.
Sad but true … however that will change soon IMO, i.e. 2022 &n 2024.

Arjuna19 Apr 2022 10:19 a.m. PST

@Thresher01 and Legion 4

I'm German and so it's probably not my business.
So I'm not going to go into that in any depth, it just gives bad blood and doesn't get anyone anywhere.
My anti-russian comments in these forums are probably already borderline.
But those fools deserve no better.
And it's just words and wounded pride on the internet, not bullets in brains, so who really cares?

Therefore in a nutshell as an outsider.
I would be pleased if the U.S. would just overcome the divisiveness of its society, not overthrow its society.
I know you can.
You already did it multiple times in your history.
It's what made you great.

Thresher0119 Apr 2022 2:37 p.m. PST

Sadly, unless there is an urgent and existential threat perceived and acted upon, the US people will most likely remain divided and may become even more so, especially if those in charge now lose big in 2022 and 2024 as is being predicted by many.

There currently are a number of existential threats in play, but alas most people here are suffering from the slow boiled frog syndrome, and so there is no reaction, sadly.

I fear that by the time they sense the heat it will be too late to recover.

With current vectors ongoing, the cost to our society will result in TRILLIONS more in national debt, and we already can't afford the huge increase in spending and debt incurred in just the last few years, not to mention even before that spike occurred.

Add in the fact that "the Fed" is now looking to majorly increase interest rates, and our country will be hard-pressed to remain solvent.

I've heard it said that in order to curb inflation, interest rates need to exceed the current inflation rate, so that means interest rates will need to increase from almost zero % to over 10% soon. Without that, high inflation will continue.

I fear we are on the way to an economy like that of Venezuela, and a dollar being devalued like that of the German Weimar Republic so many decades ago.

I hope I'm wrong, but things look very dire currently, and there is no reversal in policies to try to address the issues at hand.

Personal logo Legion 4 Supporting Member of TMP19 Apr 2022 3:16 p.m. PST

Arjuna + 1 & Thresher +1 …

In USA currently it appears the tail is wagging the dog. A vocal well-funded radical minority with much support from US oligarchs plus much of the media are in charge. Rough estimate there are 30% of those vs. about 70% of the rest. Again I hope this will be fixed in 2022 & 2024 …

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.