"Russian cruiser Moskva hit by missiles?" Topic

Russian authorities have now issued some numbers regarding the crew losses, claiming:

- 1 dead
- 27 missing
- 396 evacuated

Apparently the Russians have moved the 110 year old Kommuna submarine salvage vessel out of port in Sebastopol and are deploying it to investigate the Moskva wreck. The Kommuna is a catamaran style vessel and often has a submersible.

Makes one curious what exactly they are looking for on the Moskva….

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1 Dead… wonder who?
27 Missing… but as sunk presumably Dead.
Evacuated… if on fire, many with burns… hope they survive.

"There was a "storm" in the Black Sea at that time…"

Maybe when the hits took place, photos after the fact show nice calm seas… How many hours passed from the time she was hit until she sank the next day?

"Even Russian crew would have some emergency training and some equipment…"

They would probably have OBA in several damage control lockers in various locations throughout the ship. The lockers would also have spare oxygen cannisters. There would not be enough OBA for the entire crew just those that would have to fight the fire. So if the halls, enlisted berthing and holds were filled with smoke and it was dark with hundreds of men choking in a state of panic a disaster could unfold very quickly.

Makes one curious what exactly they are looking for on the Moskva….

Well it may not nukes they are fishing for. Quote from Wikipedia –

In 2020, the archpriest of the Russian Orthodox Church Sevastopol District said that a supposed fragment of the True Cross would be kept in Moskva's chapel. The True Cross is the cross on which believers say Jesus was crucified and a very rare relic important to many Christians. There was speculation after the ship's sinking that the relic may have gone down with the ship.

From reports… only 100 sailors managed to survive…

Armand

Claims of a piece of holy cross on the ship sound a bit outlandish (or medieval), so I would take it with a pinch of salt. Could make for a great plot for an Indiana Jones movie, though.

And if there had truely been a holy relic on the ship, it apparently did not provide much protection from anti-ship missiles.

The sentence on Wikipedia has no less than three references so I'd say its probably legit. And don't forget that Putin has cynically co-opted the Orthodox Church into the cause of his political vision.

I'd also note its probably not much than a splinter. Its just a symbol and symbols can have a power and all things being equal have a talismanic symbol and Orthodox relic like a chunk of the 'true' cross at the bottom of the Black Sea may not look good to a certain chunk of the Russian population!

Certainly, losing a "holy relic" to the bottom of the sea might not be the greatest plan to maintain popularity with the said part of population. Whether they will blame the ones who placed it on a warship (never the safest of places to store things) or who managed to lose the said ship – or whether it might even be seen as a sign that supernatural forces might be annoyed by the whole operation.

Conveniently, Russian authorities have not admitted that any Ukrainian missiles might have anything to do with the whole event.

Well, its not like its the 12thC and Prince Putin has to take take such a clear sign of God's displeasure seriously.

The denominations I mix with don't do relics and I've no idea how seriously the contemporary Russian Orthodox church take them or how significant this one was.

Still mystified by the 'we blew our own ship up through negligence' narrative as somehow being better than admitting it was sunk by enemy action.

Supposedly back in the Middle Ages, when relics were a big thing, there were so many pieces of the holy cross in circulation in Europe that one could have easily built a whole church out of them.

In the worst case, the Black Sea fleet should be able to figure out a replacement splinter from somewhere. Though presuming that the chapel (presumably added in post-Soviet times) was not damaged by the missiles, it might not be too difficult to recover it.

While at the ship, they could also try looking for some of those crew members who are still "missing in action".

I am betting they are attempting to recover nukes.

"While at the ship, they could also try looking for some of those crew members who are still "missing in action"."

Russia has abandoned its dead and wounded all over Ukraine why would they start to care now?

"Still mystified by the 'we blew our own ship up through negligence' narrative as somehow being better than admitting it was sunk by enemy action"

It is better to assign blame to human error (preferably on the dead or missing). The alternative is to admit you were incompetent, vulnerable and weak.

Can We Simulate The Sinking of the Russian Cruiser Moskva?

YouTube link

Armand

Still mystified by the 'we blew our own ship up through negligence' narrative as somehow being better than admitting it was sunk by enemy action.

Certain local military expert pointed out that the Russian Ministry of Truth is currently faced with the somewhat unenviable task of cranking out war propaganda while at the same time trying to convince everybody that the country is not involved in a war.

Well apparently Russia does have a truly terrible fire safety record! And it seems to be getting worse.

The relic story seems legit but is only so interesting, though apparently it may be worth $40 USD million
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More on the Sinking of the MOSKVA

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Armand