"If not a fly zone, perhaps... a Volunteer Group?" Topic

Just prior to World War II, the United States set up the American Volunteer Group of American pilots flying for the Chinese against Japan.

This is the famous Flying Tigers.

While a no fly zone is too escalatory, why not a UVG, or Ukrainian Volunteer Group? Global pilots flying donated aircraft on behalf of Ukraine? They could be The Nightingales since that is the Ukrainian national mascot. They could be equipped with older F16s and European fighters.

Much easier to do in the WW2 era. Who would supply the ground crew, munitions, spare parts, etc.? Also, unlike in WW2 you would need extensive early warning and GCI assets, airfield defenses, etc., which would be difficult to do as well as the training on dissimilar equipment. Sounds like a tall order.

Ideally, you'd do this with the cooperation of Ukraine, who would integrate a volunteer group into their air defense setup.

These donated aircraft weapons and maintenance kit + crew would be very expensive. The sort of things only a country could afford.

Why not?
Because it would be tantamount to a declaration of war. Precisely what those nato countries who would kind of like to support Ukraine want to avoid.

I would think flying such missions would be at significant risk in modern first class aircraft with first class support. Flying older cheaper and easier to maintain aircraft without such quality support would be higher risk.

This could also be like the International Brigades helping the republic during the Spanish Civil War. The actual countries weren't formally involved, the brigades were volunteers.

Then again, like someone said, modern tech is not the same as pre-WWII tech, and requires different maintenance/support.

I think it would be 'wild' if they had MULTIPLE 'phantom fighters' flying at different times from different locations when soviet fighters/planes came over…..so even if the 'phantom' was downed…..the exact 'same' plane would show up….again and again and again? also, it would make for a good novel/movie to have a 'Nightengale' squadron in the Ukrane!!! (like the Blackhawks in the comics???)
Slishfully-Sgt DWW…..Bartentacle in an alternate timeline…

the famous Flying Tigers.

Yes the situation today is a bit different than WWII. However, it is an interesting idea. But I don't think it would "fly" in reality …

The North Korean air force was essentially entirely made up of Russian pilots. The Soviets simply overpainted their Soviet markings with NK ones, and mostly operated only above NK controlled territory in case they were shot down. Over 800 Russian pilots fought against the UN/US forces, with over 50 making ace.

Just send them more drones. Smaller maintenance footprint and it doesn't look like the Russians can effectively deal with them.

Russians are getting better at jamming the drones.

Also, our Predator/Reaper types that do the heavy-hitting are not designed for a contested environment. They'd be easy targets for Russian SAMs.

We should just deploy our stealth fighters and bombers while denying it. Have them "shadow" Ukrainian Migs, or claim their bombs were Ukrainian rockets.

As for WWII, there were also other various volunteer fighter groups. In Winter War, there was a small multi-national force, including even a couple of Italian fighter pilots. I think they brought their own aircraft.

Battle of Britain saw volunteer fighter pilots joining in at least from Poland and Czech (both under German occupation at the time) and from North America. By my understanding, these were provided with British aircraft to fly.

As for Ukraine, my understanding is that they do not have so much a shortage of pilots as of spare aircraft at the moment. And currently no country is willing to bring in aircraft, due to the fear of escalating the conflict.

So currently providing air-to-ground AA weapons sounds like the most realistic method of reinforcing the Ukrainian air defences.

Committing stealth planes would be a really bad idea.
It would be better to go all in and dare Putin to launch those nukes.
Hope he was bluffing.

The North Korean air force was essentially entirely made up of Russian pilots.

Yes … one Communist brother helping out another, we'd expect nothing less. We saw the same during Vietnam, even in the ROK. The North Koreans attacking the ROK & US forces in order to help another Communist brother out, i.e. the VC/NVA. No surprise there either.

I'd love to see a volunteer fighter group helping to defend Ukraine.

Seems like a great idea to me.

A pity the US is blocking the transfer of those Polish Migs to Ukraine. Some are NOT serious about REALLY providing the weaponry they need in order for them to win their war against Russia.

The West should provide them with any and ALL weapons needed in order to do that.

if Ukraine has any spare pilots then the west should now be training them on the various aircraft, ready to go when/if we decide to give them said aircraft
rather than giving them aircraft then training them how to fly them ,major delay