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"3rd Crusades - Am I doing it right?" Topic


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Korvessa09 Apr 2022 5:50 p.m. PST

I am in the middle of building a crusader army. As a confirmed soloist (no choice really – I live in the mountains/forest. My town has a pop of 300) my armies are more often than not based upon figures at hand, figures I want to paint and/or units I think are "cool/fun," rather than trying to come up with the ultimate "power" list (I play "War & Conquest"). The list will be about 2300 points, give or take, when I am done.
Note: some of these figures I got from an older brother & date from the late 1970s or early 1980s. Was that really 40 years ago?
Crusaders:
Commander & Army standard (probably one sub-commander too)
6 Knight Templars (Fireforge – still in the box)
6 Knight Templars (Ditto)
2 unit of 6 knights + 6 sergeants each (also ditto)
An as yet undermined sized unit of Turcopoles (not purchased yet, probably 8 or 12).
28 dismounted foot sergeants (40-year-old Ral Partha figs) – I like big units.
1 unit of 32 spearmen (many of which are just peasants – another 40-year-old unit)
1 unit of 18 archers (the only crossbows I have are Renaissance Swiss/Landsknechts)

As for the Army of Islam
Commander & Army standard (probably one sub-commander too)
12 Mamluk guards (unpurchased – probably Gripping Beast Arab heavy cav)
10 Ghulams in heavy armor (Old Glory)
12 Arab Light cavalry (Fireforge – still in the box)
2 units (8 & 10) Bedouin light cav (Ral Partha Moorish cav)
2 units of 12 tribal light cav (proxied from later centuries – more 40+ year-old units)
6 camel riders (more old Ral Parthas – I think)
3 units of tribal infantry 12bows/12 spears (a rather eclectic mix – even includes some old LotR Easterlings from the early 80s!)
6 Naptha throwers (Old Glory)

As you can see by the fact that many are "still in the box" this project will take awhile (especially as I will likely be moving in the middle of it) – good thing I am retired. But you know what they say, having unpainted figs prolongs your life!

Other than army composition, my biggest dilemma is how to model the Crusader Knights. I purchased three boxes from Fireforge: 2 of Templars (They were out of Western Knights) & one of sergeants. They are pretty much the same, so can be mixed & matched with ease. One difference is horses. The Templar boxes come with 6 horses with barding and six without. The sergeants have no horses with barding.
For variety sake, I decided to go with small units of 6 Templars/Hospitallers. I thought about doing one unit of 6 Templars/6 sergeants, but decided two small units would be more fun to paint (and likely more realistic given my army size – as far as that goes).
The other to units will be a mix of 6 knights & 6 sergeants. At this point am thinking of painting one unit up as English & one German – again for variety sake. How to divide up the barding is a thinking point. Right now, I am thinking of giving all 6 Templars barded horses and splitting up the other six among the Hospitallers & English & Germans – probably giving them to the commander and musician (or standard bearer if I decide to forgo the musician).
I am having a little trouble deciding how to paint up the English & Germans. Am thinking of giving the front row knights shield from this wonderful sight I found here at TMP searching old topics: earlyblazon.com
The Sergeants I would probably give something very simple, probably something red & white for the English & black & yellow for the Germans
How does this sound?
How are others doing it?

Ran The Cid09 Apr 2022 6:25 p.m. PST

I did the battle of Arsuf using Hail Caesar. Army list is included in the link below: link

I decided to go with more infantry units. At least with HC, it makes for a better game. The Army of Islam could be represented as a fully mounted force, but I chose to use heavy archers as dismounted Ghulams.

Thresher0109 Apr 2022 6:32 p.m. PST

Can't answer your questions but am following with interest.

Druzhina11 Apr 2022 1:33 a.m. PST

Here are some contemporary depictions that may be of interest:

Fresco of a Templar knight at Cressac-sur-Charente, France
'La Charité Psalter', Central France, last quarter of the 12th century. British Library Harley MS 2895.
Murder of Thomas Becket, England, last quarter of the 12th century. BL Harley 5102.
'Great Canterbury Psalter' from Christ Church Abbey, Canterbury, England, 1176-1200AD. BnF Latin 8846.
'Rolandslied', Song of Roland, Regensburg, Germany, late 12th-century. Universitätsbibliothek Heidelberg.
Murder of Thomas Becket on the font in Lyngsjo Church, Scania, southern Sweden, late 12th century.
Historiated ‘E' at the beginning of I Maccabees, Le Puiset Bible, England, late 12th Century. Durham Cathedral Library.
Massacre of the Innocents, Ingeborg Psalter, Northern France, c.1195AD. Musée Condé of Chantilly.
St John's College, Psalter MS K.30, North Midlands, England, c.1190-1200
Sicilians & Germans in the 'Liber ad honorem Augusti' by Pietro da Eboli, c.1197. Berne Municipal Library MS. 120 II.
Navarre Picture Bible of King Sancho, Pamplona, Spain, 1197AD.
Crusader knights on a Map of Jerusalem c.1200. Koninklijke Bibliotheek, The Hague, Ms. 76 F 5.
Scandinavian Knights on the Valthjofsstadir Church Door, c. 1200 AD, Iceland.
Pamplona Picture Bible, Pamplona, Navarre, Spain, c.1200AD. UB Augsburg – Oettingen-Wallersteinsche Bibliothek Cod.I.2.4.15
A wall painting of knights from All Saints Church, Claverley, Shropshire, England, 12th/13th century
Harley Roll Y.6. 'Life of Guthlac', England, 12th-13th century. British Library Harley Roll Y.6.
Germans in black and yellow livery in 'Psalterium B. Elisabeth' or 'Elisabethpsalter', early 13C, Museo Archeologico Nazionale, Cividale Ms. CXXXVII

and extracts from 'Armies and Enemies of the Crusades 1096-1291' by Ian Heath

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

Soldat19 May 2022 5:44 p.m. PST

The Barons' war currently has a crusade kickstarter. It is skirmish level

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