"Dead men walking..." Topic

Just when I've heard of one stupid action by Russian military leadership that tops it all, I find another one.

During the engagement over the Chernobyl nuclear accident site the Russian military had its troops dig in…in an active nuclear waste site. They dug trenchworks, foxholes, revetments and hull-down positions for their vehicles. Then the soldiers *Lived* in radioactive waste-soil for days. What horrifically deadly stupidity that condemned most of those mean to death. :(

The Pripyat River and marshy ground surrounding the river protect the plant against ground attacks from the north and east. But the Russians knew they had to defend against any Ukrainian avenue of attack from the west and south. We can only estimate the radioactive level of the dirt they unearthed as they dug holes to protect themselves. Best estimates predict radiation levels between 5000 and 10,000 counts per minute. The foxholes that protected them against the expected incoming Ukrainian counterattack also wrapped them in radioactive poison.

The fatality level in radiation poisoning is not determined by just the exposure level but also the time of exposure. The degree of deadly effect is a combination of the dosage level, those 5000 to 10,000 counts per minute, multiplied by the time the soldiers were irradiated. Our hazmat advisor recommended spending no more than a couple of minutes near that post hole. The Russian soldiers lived and slept in their foxholes and trenches 24 hours a day. That's a month of living inside a radioactive cauldron.

Extended exposures at that 5000-10,000 counts level are not survivable. The fact that the Russian soldiers surrounding the plant developed symptoms this quickly indicates their fatally high level of accumulated exposure.

The Russians admit they treated 200 soldiers for radiation poisoning. That is probably only a small percentage of those affected. There were probably at least 800 to 1000 Russian soldiers committed to defending Chernobyl from the Ukrainians. Others were there for limited times. Russians who received less but still deadly doses will not develop symptoms for weeks, months or even years.

link

Again … Putin uses his army as fodder … Everyone knew that area was radioactive.

And reports they stored munitions there, figuring the Ukrainians wouldn't fire on Chernobyl.

Not surprised. This has been the pattern of the Russian aristocracy throughout history. The peasants are cannon fodder. In what war, were they not? The only time they Stood up to it was during World War I. I saw a poll that now 80% of Russians surveyed, supported Putin. I Guess that proves that you can fool some of the people some of the time but most the Russians all the time. 😢

This has been the pattern of the Russian aristocracy throughout history. The peasants are cannon fodder. In what war, were they not?

Good point, though now Russia is in a demographic free fall. Their population is shrinking, not growing, and there aren't enough "peasants" being born that they can afford to throw away as cannon fodder.

Russia, the only country to lose troops to radiation without getting nuked…
no more nightfighting for those dudes :-)

I would be happier if the article was more scientific. 5,000 to 10,000 counts per minute is meaningless. How much energy is in a "count" ? How many RADs have the troops received ?

I suspect any radiation doses received would be fairly low.

Counts per Minute is a scientific term for radiation intensity – how many energetic particles impact a detector like a Geiger Counter over a certain time range. Normal background radiation is typically in the range of 25-75 counts per minute, depending on location and surroundings.

If you have your Geiger counter calibrated to Cs137, which most are, so at 10,000 CPM that's a dose of about 30 microsieverts (µSv/h) per hour. That's considered a "high danger: sickness risk" level of radiation.

And they don't understand when Russian troops disobey orders.

I suspect any radiation doses received would be fairly low.

Still may have effects later ?

In Army NBC training we were told an Infantry Company can only take up to 60 Rads, IIRC. All Infantry Cos. have a Gieger Counter, Dosimeters, etc. Once you hit 60 rads, the Company is no longer able to go into any radioactive areas. For obvious reasons. Personally I don't want to go near any radioactive location. Fortunately we never had to worry about 60 Rads for real.

That's quite the own goal, if I understand the idiom from across the pond.

30 microSv/hour equate to 3 mrem/hr. Assuming 24 hour exposure for 30 days, the dose would be 2.16 rem. Not likely to be fatal, but not healthy either. 30 microSv/hr happens to be the level where the conifers in the "red forest" will no longer germinate. Unless these guys were wearing dosimeters (chance = 0.0), it's impossible to say what dose they may have received as it's so dependent on a lot of variables. One being that the radioactive deposition pattern, not to mention eventual dispersion of radioisotopes into soil, was every erratic due to local wind conditions, rain, and so on. Also, a handheld radiation detector is only measuring external exposure, largely from gamma radiation. Special detectors and or filters are needed for neutron count as well as beta or alpha radiation counts. Breathing in radioactive particles that are airborne from a variety of sources results in a different form of exposure and can be much deadlier. Even very small quantities result can result in high internal exposure, especially as some of the radioisotopes belong to elements that are naturally absorbed into bone.

Actually shows at least some positions relative to the plant.

link

Personally I think its a bit unlikely the soldiers got acute radiation sickness that quick from contaminated soil. Unless they did something real dumb/unlucky. The soldiers stationed there also looted a lab. You wonder if they went poking around places they really shouldn't have and may be "collected" some souvenirs they really, really shouldn't have. My suspicion is there is more to this story than just trenches.

I'm sure there will a IAEA report, which will no doubt make interesting reading.

Personally I think its a bit unlikely the soldiers got acute radiation sickness that quick from contaminated soil.

Some speculation that it was mass hysteria. A few people get sick for whatever reason, panic sets in.

A quick look at Wikipedia gives gives a max dose of 10 milli-Sv/hr in 2005 for the Red Forest. That will have reduced in the intervening decade. Though standing in a hole in the ground is a great way to maximise your dose. The Chernobyl fire did spit out small fragments of fuel which will be in the soil some of these might well be active enough to result in localised 'burn' (and dose) if skin contact is maintained for long enough. Grubby soldiers digging holes get dirt under their fingernails etc.

It will be interesting to see if anyone can properly geolocate that drone footage.

Grubby soldiers digging holes get dirt under their fingernails etc.

Apparently, Russian soldiers do not bathe. The Ukrainians that have recently been liberated have noted how badly the Russian soldiers 'stank'.

Nor do they know how to dig latrines. They defecate in government buildings and grocery stores, again as found in the liberated areas.

If the Russian army cannot provide fuel or food to its units in the field, then I imagine personal hygiene is a very low priority. No excuse to not dig a slit trench to defecate in or a "cat hole".

Dragon Gunner +1

Drone footage of trenches near Chernobyl.

The Sun: link

They also use radioactive wood to heat themselves by fireplaces. Not a good idea to inhale such smoke.

„Sasha, why You turn off the Geiger counter?
I couldnt sleep with this rattling like air cooler."

If this story is real, WELL THIS SHOW AN ABSOLUTE LACK OF INTELLIGENCE/ORGANIZATION/RESPECT for their men's lives from russia's higher ups (but after all it's historical), possible that no one knew how dangerous was that zone? As I said in another post, normally the red army's division had always a NBC detachement, and here in hte west Chernobyl is a (really) dreaded name, what they were thinking?

To Putin all of his troops are expendable. We have seen that thru out the war. He can just conscript more, plus he has Wagner Grp, Chechnyan, Arab and Mongolian Mercs if the reports are correct. So if some die from Rad effects or Ukrainian weapon fire … means little. He is a dictator & tyrant, etc.

Plus we have seen during this war the Russian leadership is marginal at best, including their MI abilities.

CNN tours Chernobyl: youtu.be/8jWnuvrPgu4

SB you have hit the nail on the head. This is the last cohort for conscripts that can help them. The next group is too small to keep up with demands. Soviet families had about 7 kids, Russian families have been having maybe 1.5 for a couple of decades now. Not exact numbers but close. Since when did they ever need mercs to fight for them? There is some speculation that maybe Putin knows he does not have many chances left to invade anybody.

BTW this is also a problem in China where family size restrictions have been lifted.