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"Et Sans Resultat 3rd edition - incomplete?" Topic


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GeorgBuchner29 Mar 2022 12:17 a.m. PST

So i got the 3rd edition of ESR today – it was recommended as a ruleset to try and i like its concepts
but this third edition book doesnt have any stats for commanders or armies even, and on the ESR website they have cards that yuo have to buy – i wish i knew this before i bought the book, as i was assuming hte book contained what i needed to play it

but also there are no stat cards in the store for many of the armies in any case.

Am i missin something here? how do i workout unit cohesiion values or any of the commanders values without the stat cards- is there somehwere i can find these? the book doesnt tell me where i need to look.
There is also no quick reference quide even though the book says it has one.

GeorgBuchner29 Mar 2022 12:26 a.m. PST

i see there is a site for ESR that has at least Quick ref and the commander cards details for France, Russia and England available.
No details yet available for any armies so i guess i will just put this all aside until the rest of the content is available.

I would have preferred that these critical things would have been in the book itself, rather than some later paper printouts that i will just have to fold up and stick in the book later

Lascaris29 Mar 2022 5:49 a.m. PST

Stats are available in the campaign books. I believe they'll also be available in the stat cards when they release and, if they are like the generals, will be downloadable from their website. I really enjoyed V2 of ESR and have purchased all the V3 content available and I'm gearing up for my first try with French vs Russians in 1812.

Martian Root Canal29 Mar 2022 6:39 a.m. PST

As Lascaris has said, the stats for units/commanders are in the campaign books. Since there is an overwhelming amount of units and forces that change throughout the Napoleonic Wars, putting it all in one volume would have made it cost prohibitive. I have ESR V2 and just purchased V3. I don't play every era of the Napoleonic wars, so I appreciate I can buy sourcebooks that cover my interests.

GeorgBuchner29 Mar 2022 7:04 a.m. PST

unfortunatetly those campaign guide books are themselves hard to find and not cheap those that are – i was after the one for the 1813.

One thing though i see is that the campaign guides unit stats wont have the cohesion values are this stat has been created with v3

- i really like the way in which combat is resolved iin ESR v3 nevertheless, so i want to use them when they have the full stats for armies available

John Simmons29 Mar 2022 5:25 p.m. PST

GeorgBuchner -

As others have mentioned, material is being posted on the company website for download. The supply chain issues effect even the game industry so products are delayed, yet still coming to market. I will follow up tomorrow with some suggestions to use for guidelines to get up and gaming, not official but will work to get some start up games going.
Quick Referance Cards are a download feature that you choose the scale you will game with, so nice!

GeorgBuchner29 Mar 2022 6:03 p.m. PST

yes i like the scalability of ESR very much and starting at battalion size is good too. I do like the new cohesion concept with teh 3rd edition but it is very hard to fully grasp and this book has really pared back the rules section compared to the 2nd edition from what i can tell – its only 108 pages and there are only 20 pages in there of rules, – i dont need rules to be long but when there are quite complex yet given in a simplified fashion and with some diagrams that dont have explanation one gets quite lost

the book is i feel lacking alot in the way of guiding a new player through an actual battle and i am still not fully understanding on how formations are to be arranged – are they to only look like the one graphic example in the book?

in all though i cant do anything with it until i have the details for the forces and all the commanders which are not yet available, one cannot even building a force without know the cohesion values of the units.
the book has a great many starter scenarios which i like, but i think i need something simpler than those to start in order to comprehend how it all works

It is good to be King Supporting Member of TMP01 Apr 2022 12:10 p.m. PST

Having both their second ed. book and received the new one recently, the length of the rules hasn't changed as much as it might look. In the new edition it starts on page 45 and goes through 80, so about 35 pages. The last couple pages are designer commentary but in the 2nd ed. the designer commentary was included amongst the rules so comparing apples to apples. The "old" 2nd ed. has the rules running from page 1 (not really cause there's a bunch of roman numeral sections ahead of it) to 73, but if you actually look at the pages the layout is vastly different and the amount of blank space on the 2nd ed. pages is WAY higher. I think the new layout resulted in the "rules" taking up a lot less space. That's got to account for at least 30-40% of the reduction in pages if not more. If you're reading it, it is also better written, more tight, less wordy. Probably gained a couple there too.

The examples for 2nd ed are all spread through the different rule sections and in the new one they all seem to be located at the front in the quick start. There are less of them but they are way more general case, whereas in sec edition they had included just a bunch for all sorts of specific circumstances. I think the general case ones are more useful at least to get started with. they said on their facebook page that a lot more supporting resources will be posted online. I'm OK with every advanced situation not being covered in the book because they won't come up in every game. What I want is examples of how the general mechanics work so we can get playing and it looks like those are there. I found the diagrams in the example quick start section pretty easy to follow, they all say what is going on honestly are more clear than some of those in the 2nd ed.

The commander /leader stats are already posted for download and there's a place holder for unit stats so those should be for download too. I got the card decks because my group likes cards but I downloaded the commander PDF too and it is easy to make rosters from. I can understand them deciding to leave out all the ratings from the core rulebook, literally half of the old rulebook was stats, and of course it still didn't include everyone. Plus, when you bought a campaign guide you were replicating that. And if you've got either of the new campaign guides they published in the last YEAR (can you believe that?) they included the new stats in those already so then you've already got stats for the leaders and units involved in them. Yesterday was the original scheduled release date, so makes some sense that since they started shipping it early not everything is up online yet. Lots of info on the news section of their site: link seems they've been hit by both the supplier and COVID issues but are getting pre-orders shipped. Fingers crossed they are able to start posting more supporting material once they get all the orders out the door! but I like what I'm seeing so far.

Georg Buechner01 Apr 2022 2:17 p.m. PST

I think David on the ESR forum has helped clarify some things for me. I do like what I am comprehending so far, they are different anything else I have so far come across ruleswise.
I do still just wish I had some army cohesion stats in the main book, even if just a basic list that could be used if one doesn't have the cards. But that's just my preference, I like my books to be complete in themselves more or less. I downloaded the commander cards and have now actually prefer the 1812 campaign guide too

John Simmons01 Apr 2022 3:30 p.m. PST

Georg Buechner -

David has today posted more info per your needs on the website of TWC. You can find stats for formations, French, English, Russia, and Austria with more to follow.
These are a download in Excel, enjoy.

GeorgBuchner02 Apr 2022 2:36 a.m. PST

oh awesome!

John Simmons02 Apr 2022 5:58 p.m. PST

Georg,

I just saw more info has been uploaded, the QRS in multiple scales is up. That was really fast how we got this info posted to use, Nice!

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