79thPA | 24 Mar 2022 12:34 p.m. PST |
I think about relatively small actions (or a small part of a bigger action) off and on. It seems to me that many small games of a brigade or two per side can be fought without any cavalry on the table at all. Correct me if I am wrong, but these "small" actions are most frequently affairs just between infantry and artillery. I see pictures of games with a brigade or two of infantry supported by a brigade or two of cavalry. These are hypothetical affairs and, I assume, it is a case of wanting to use all of your figures and have a combined arms force. From a strictly historical perspective, would cavalry typically be absent from these actions? I am not complaining or telling anyone how to play their games; I am simply looking for a better historical understanding of troop deployment. |
Unlucky General | 24 Mar 2022 3:54 p.m. PST |
I can't see why not. If the terrain prohibits effective cavalry movement this would be the case. As a tactical element, mounted cavalry can't have been of as much use in built-up areas. Even within a larger battle, some armies tended to marshal their cavalry in reserve rather than dole it out at the divisional level in the first instance. Naturally, there are likely some contrary views. |
14Bore | 24 Mar 2022 4:54 p.m. PST |
I did a big Napoleonic war game with no cavalry, day 2 of Gettysburg recreation. But no reason a small game couldn't be done. |
Korvessa | 24 Mar 2022 5:55 p.m. PST |
Didn't that sort of thing happen a lot in the Peninsula? |
Glengarry5 | 24 Mar 2022 6:25 p.m. PST |
If you'd like Napoleonic period small actions without cavalry you should look at the War of 1812! |
Speculus | 24 Mar 2022 6:35 p.m. PST |
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Yellow Admiral | 24 Mar 2022 8:37 p.m. PST |
If you'd like Napoleonic period small actions without cavalry you should look at the War of 1812! Maybe combat with only infantry and artillery would be better referred to as "combined legs". - Ix |
SHaT1984 | 24 Mar 2022 9:14 p.m. PST |
I must have come into the wrong room= I did a big Napoleonic war game with no cavalry, day 2 of Gettysburg recreation. Nope, not in my universe…. |
enfant perdus | 24 Mar 2022 10:50 p.m. PST |
One issue I see is that most rules have cavalry acting as regiments rather than squadrons, even when infantry are represented as battalions. Depending on the nature of the engagement, a small action with one or two squadrons present is very realistic. |
14Bore | 25 Mar 2022 1:06 a.m. PST |
I transfer exact OOB and use my Napoleonic rules, just troop placement are based on a different era. Been doing 7YW the same way lately since I have only Prussian, Russian, British / Allied and Bavarians. |
setsuko | 25 Mar 2022 2:02 a.m. PST |
Looking at 1809, I remember several smaller battles/skirmishers both with and without cavalry, even down to the level of a single infantry battalion or so being supported by a mounted squadron or two. Also some decently sized encounters without cavalry at all, where several brigades would duke it out. Generally those would not be decisive, simply because victorious infantry have a hard time to catch up with a retreating infantry force. |
robert piepenbrink | 25 Mar 2022 4:22 a.m. PST |
Smaller battles tended to violate our precious and beloved army lists. Certainly you can find a number of brigade or division actions with no cavalry--but you can also find small actions with more cavalry than most rules would allow, or exclusively cavalry. Remember that a corps was usually the smallest unit to combine the three arms. Absent a few "legions" brigade and division-size engagements were fought out by forces not intended to operate long without support. Glenngary is right, of course: cavalry was difficult and expensive to ship, so if you'd prefer battles without cavalry, look outside Europe or on the fringes. |
79thPA | 25 Mar 2022 7:23 a.m. PST |
Right now, I am collecting 54s, which lends itself to smaller battles. Cavalry is generally poorly represented in 54mm. I don't have any interest in the war of 1812. Thanks for the comments so far. |
Tumbleweed | 25 Mar 2022 9:48 a.m. PST |
The retreat from Moscow in 1812 had many infantry battles or skirmishes due to the loss of so many horses on the French side. |
arthur1815 | 25 Mar 2022 11:22 a.m. PST |
The battle of Maida in 1806 is a possibility. The British force had no cavalry; the French only the 9th Chasseurs a cheval. |
Prince of Essling | 25 Mar 2022 2:58 p.m. PST |
Battles around Bayonne 9 to 13 December 1813 – solely infantry and artillery affairs involving a number of divisions each side. |
robert piepenbrink | 25 Mar 2022 3:13 p.m. PST |
Hmph. I would have said that there was a relative abundance of Napoleonic 54mm cavalry, 79th. It's the AWI where I start running into troubles. But if you need infantry-only, add Rolica to the list, and take a look at Bowden's 1805 volume. Several small engagements between Austrians and French with no cavalry present. |
79thPA | 25 Mar 2022 5:12 p.m. PST |
There are plenty of French dragons and heavy cav., but light cav is hard to find or relatively expensive, and cavalry for Russia, Austria, etc. doesn't exist. |
robert piepenbrink | 26 Mar 2022 12:51 p.m. PST |
Ah! You went east while I went west. (If you need an obscure period or scale, always stick close to the British.) Pretty sure there was some Italieri Austrian horse, though. And Armies in Plastic has some lancers. |
Major Function | 26 Mar 2022 6:13 p.m. PST |
Various parts of the battle of Leipzig 1813 can be used for just infantry and artillery battles/games. For example the attack on Wachau. |
Mike the Analyst | 29 Mar 2022 3:35 a.m. PST |
You might think that a Peninsular battle like Busacoa would be a good candidate except that Wellington placed a squadron on a small plateau in the ridge. |
swammeyjoe | 08 Apr 2022 9:13 a.m. PST |
The book "The Greenhill Napoleonic Wars Data Book" will be your friend here. They detail troop strength (typically down to number of BTNs, Squadrons, Batteries of various types) for literally every battle from 1792 to 1815. There are plenty of battles that fit your criteria, though they aren't always "balanced". If you have a specific nation/region you're most interested in, I can try and look for a few that fit. Edit: by your criteria I meant infantry + arty only, but there are also many "classic" small battles with all 3 arms, with something like 8-10 infantry battalions, 2-8 Squadrons and a small amount of arty per side. So I think the stereotypical wargames battle is perfectly valid historically. |
Mem691 | 08 Apr 2022 11:06 a.m. PST |
I enthusiastically second Zach's (swammeyjoe) recommendation of "The Greenhill Napoleonic Wars Data Book." When I have the opportunity to host a game, it is my first source to find a battle that will match troops we can muster. And, I fully agree, they aren't necessarily 'balanced.' To 'balance' the game, we will adjust OOB's and create victory conditions to give the underdog a chance to win. (Often, these asymmetric games are more enjoyable than carefully balanced games.) |
79thPA | 08 Apr 2022 3:29 p.m. PST |
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