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"Battles without Cavalry" Topic


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79thPA Supporting Member of TMP24 Mar 2022 12:34 p.m. PST

I think about relatively small actions (or a small part of a bigger action) off and on. It seems to me that many small games of a brigade or two per side can be fought without any cavalry on the table at all. Correct me if I am wrong, but these "small" actions are most frequently affairs just between infantry and artillery.

I see pictures of games with a brigade or two of infantry supported by a brigade or two of cavalry. These are hypothetical affairs and, I assume, it is a case of wanting to use all of your figures and have a combined arms force. From a strictly historical perspective, would cavalry typically be absent from these actions?

I am not complaining or telling anyone how to play their games; I am simply looking for a better historical understanding of troop deployment.

Personal logo Unlucky General Supporting Member of TMP24 Mar 2022 3:54 p.m. PST

I can't see why not. If the terrain prohibits effective cavalry movement this would be the case. As a tactical element, mounted cavalry can't have been of as much use in built-up areas.

Even within a larger battle, some armies tended to marshal their cavalry in reserve rather than dole it out at the divisional level in the first instance.

Naturally, there are likely some contrary views.

14Bore24 Mar 2022 4:54 p.m. PST

I did a big Napoleonic war game with no cavalry, day 2 of Gettysburg recreation. But no reason a small game couldn't be done.

Korvessa24 Mar 2022 5:55 p.m. PST

Didn't that sort of thing happen a lot in the Peninsula?

Glengarry524 Mar 2022 6:25 p.m. PST

If you'd like Napoleonic period small actions without cavalry you should look at the War of 1812!

Speculus24 Mar 2022 6:35 p.m. PST

May as well play ACW.

Personal logo Yellow Admiral Supporting Member of TMP24 Mar 2022 8:37 p.m. PST

If you'd like Napoleonic period small actions without cavalry you should look at the War of 1812!
Maybe combat with only infantry and artillery would be better referred to as "combined legs".

- Ix

SHaT198424 Mar 2022 9:14 p.m. PST

I must have come into the wrong room= I did a big Napoleonic war game with no cavalry, day 2 of Gettysburg recreation.

Nope, not in my universe….

Personal logo enfant perdus Supporting Member of TMP24 Mar 2022 10:50 p.m. PST

One issue I see is that most rules have cavalry acting as regiments rather than squadrons, even when infantry are represented as battalions. Depending on the nature of the engagement, a small action with one or two squadrons present is very realistic.

14Bore25 Mar 2022 1:06 a.m. PST

I transfer exact OOB and use my Napoleonic rules, just troop placement are based on a different era. Been doing 7YW the same way lately since I have only Prussian, Russian, British / Allied and Bavarians.

setsuko25 Mar 2022 2:02 a.m. PST

Looking at 1809, I remember several smaller battles/skirmishers both with and without cavalry, even down to the level of a single infantry battalion or so being supported by a mounted squadron or two. Also some decently sized encounters without cavalry at all, where several brigades would duke it out. Generally those would not be decisive, simply because victorious infantry have a hard time to catch up with a retreating infantry force.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP25 Mar 2022 4:22 a.m. PST

Smaller battles tended to violate our precious and beloved army lists. Certainly you can find a number of brigade or division actions with no cavalry--but you can also find small actions with more cavalry than most rules would allow, or exclusively cavalry.

Remember that a corps was usually the smallest unit to combine the three arms. Absent a few "legions" brigade and division-size engagements were fought out by forces not intended to operate long without support.

Glenngary is right, of course: cavalry was difficult and expensive to ship, so if you'd prefer battles without cavalry, look outside Europe or on the fringes.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP25 Mar 2022 7:23 a.m. PST

Right now, I am collecting 54s, which lends itself to smaller battles. Cavalry is generally poorly represented in 54mm.

I don't have any interest in the war of 1812.

Thanks for the comments so far.

Tumbleweed Supporting Member of TMP25 Mar 2022 9:48 a.m. PST

The retreat from Moscow in 1812 had many infantry battles or skirmishes due to the loss of so many horses on the French side.

arthur181525 Mar 2022 11:22 a.m. PST

The battle of Maida in 1806 is a possibility. The British force had no cavalry; the French only the 9th Chasseurs a cheval.

Prince of Essling25 Mar 2022 2:58 p.m. PST

Battles around Bayonne 9 to 13 December 1813 – solely infantry and artillery affairs involving a number of divisions each side.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP25 Mar 2022 3:13 p.m. PST

Hmph. I would have said that there was a relative abundance of Napoleonic 54mm cavalry, 79th. It's the AWI where I start running into troubles.

But if you need infantry-only, add Rolica to the list, and take a look at Bowden's 1805 volume. Several small engagements between Austrians and French with no cavalry present.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP25 Mar 2022 5:12 p.m. PST

There are plenty of French dragons and heavy cav., but light cav is hard to find or relatively expensive, and cavalry for Russia, Austria, etc. doesn't exist.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP26 Mar 2022 12:51 p.m. PST

Ah! You went east while I went west. (If you need an obscure period or scale, always stick close to the British.) Pretty sure there was some Italieri Austrian horse, though. And Armies in Plastic has some lancers.

Major Function26 Mar 2022 6:13 p.m. PST

Various parts of the battle of Leipzig 1813 can be used for just infantry and artillery battles/games. For example the attack on Wachau.

Mike the Analyst29 Mar 2022 3:35 a.m. PST

You might think that a Peninsular battle like Busacoa would be a good candidate except that Wellington placed a squadron on a small plateau in the ridge.

swammeyjoe08 Apr 2022 9:13 a.m. PST

The book "The Greenhill Napoleonic Wars Data Book" will be your friend here. They detail troop strength (typically down to number of BTNs, Squadrons, Batteries of various types) for literally every battle from 1792 to 1815.

There are plenty of battles that fit your criteria, though they aren't always "balanced".

If you have a specific nation/region you're most interested in, I can try and look for a few that fit.

Edit: by your criteria I meant infantry + arty only, but there are also many "classic" small battles with all 3 arms, with something like 8-10 infantry battalions, 2-8 Squadrons and a small amount of arty per side. So I think the stereotypical wargames battle is perfectly valid historically.

Mem69108 Apr 2022 11:06 a.m. PST

I enthusiastically second Zach's (swammeyjoe) recommendation of "The Greenhill Napoleonic Wars Data Book."

When I have the opportunity to host a game, it is my first source to find a battle that will match troops we can muster.

And, I fully agree, they aren't necessarily 'balanced.' To 'balance' the game, we will adjust OOB's and create victory conditions to give the underdog a chance to win. (Often, these asymmetric games are more enjoyable than carefully balanced games.)

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP08 Apr 2022 3:29 p.m. PST

Thank you to all.

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