"A new low....?" Topic

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Sweep stake on when the first propaganda video emerges of 'grateful' refugees or teary women and children asking the men to lay down their arms because Russia is coming to 'protect them'?

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I've heard this weekend that they are rounding up people and putting them in cages for their "protection" in Mariupol.

That wasn't alleged in the reporting, but will no doubt be coming soon, if it hasn't already, from the propaganda machine, as they commit ethnic cleansing/genocide in Ukraine.

I really don't understand why the US and EU/NATO/Others haven't imposed a TOTAL embargo on ALL Russian trade, commerce, etc. yet, as they continue to clearly target civilians and to raze entire cities with artillery, missiles, and bombs.

Apparently, the Chinese think the sanctions already imposed on the Russians are far too extreme.

I suspect they haven't seen anything yet, and hope I am right.

Care of
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Many musicians in Ukraine have traded "guitars for guns," said Beton guitarist Zholob, Reuters reported. He also works as an orthopedic surgeon treating the war wounded.

youtu.be/AjrbC7h3wHk

Apparently, the Chinese think the sanctions already imposed on the Russians are far too extreme.

Apparently they think they are on the right side of history as well… All the calling out of Putin for being a war criminal for human rights abuses is probably a bit near the knuckle for them I think!

So it could be that Putin will do a Katyn Forest
on Ukrainians, just like Stalin on the Polish people ?

@Ed, what makes you think they haven't already? 🤔

With today's tech should be very difficult not to do such an atrocity (think only to Sebrenitza)but HIDING it, and there aren't many friends left to "herr" Putin to negate such a massacre as for(sadly too)katyn's forest was with some of our left.

Putin's War has pushed humanity back to WWII or further. You can tell Putin & Xi are lying because their lips are moving.

Todays tech hasn't stopped the Chinese with the Uighurs.

Today's tech just makes it easier to commit war crimes/crimes against humanity …

Not just the Uighurs. There is the organ harvesting of the Falun Gong.

As the saying goes, truth is the first casualty in war. I see a bad propaganda video from the Ukrainian side today purporting to show a Russian massacre of Ukrainian protesters -- but the machinegun firing sounds and explosions were lifted off the web and then laid onto shaky phone can footage. What looks like actually happened was some tear gas grenades were used on a crowd, which then retreated and dispersed. What the Russians are doing is already bad enough, crudely edited fake atrocities detract from the real brutality and provide an excuse to dismiss all the real stuff as fake.

Probably over-enthusiastic amateurs – though I wouldn't entirely rule out the Russians deliberately creating bad fakes either. Bearing in mind 'its the Ukrainians doing it themselves' narrative still seems o be a thing

SB, saw that too. Thought if explosions, where were the casualties. Didn't even look like tear gas. More like flash bangs.

SB, saw that too. Thought if explosions, where were the casualties. Didn't even look like tear gas. More like flash bangs.

Yep, makes sense -- and I also notice most of the crowd is *walking* hastily away not running in a panicked dash.

I wouldn't entirely rule out the Russians deliberately creating bad fakes either.

True, good point.

Propaganda is nothing new as we know. Both sides are doing it. But it does not change the fact that Putin invaded Ukraine and is committing war crimes.

I heard a story that the Russians are now forcing Ukrainians into Russia. There is a feeling concentration camps will follow.

I think they should be called "Neo-Soviets" from now on.

Good point Uesugi, but some reports say most in Russian support Putin's War? While other say the opposite? " The first casualties of war … etc." …

Also heard in a report, in the Ukraine there is a number of Nazis. Not Neo-Nazis, but old school 3 Riech types(?!). I thought they were neos … but no they are still left over from that horrible WWII dogma, mentality, etc. But IIRC I and some others said this before. Let them fight the Russians, the Ukrainian need all the forces they can use. Then sort it out later.

Of course, as I have said before and many in the USA knows. We sadly have Neo-Nazis/Nazi Party in the US along with the Communists and Socialists Parties too. But none of them appear to be a real threat to the US.

I think the line between Neo and Classic Nazi is pretty thin. Turn over a rock anywhere in Europe you care to mention and you'll find some, even Scandinavia. Arguably they are more prevalent the further east you go. Russia isn't a immune and on the face it is awash with profoundly racist attitudes. TBH the internationalism of communism was always a pretty thin construct.

Globally racist attitudes are pretty common. South Asia and China in articular clearly haven't got the liberal progressive memo. The CCP in particular is stoking nationalism. We should be increasingly wary of these false narratives. Sooner or later a leadership starts drinking their own Kool-Aid. And look what happens!

Edit/
This just popped up…
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Neither side is clean. The Ukraine is not a democracy and Nazis do exist. But Russia invaded. They are also doing evil things. They are fighting and acting like WW2 Commies. So Russia wins the evil meter on this one. I give them 👿 👿 👿 1/2 on a scale of 4.

Well it took them awhile longer than I though, but they've done it.

The testimony is inconsistent – the hospital was both used by the Ukrainian military and bombed by them… And frankly she looks scared shitless. Though the still image is rubbish.

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> "Neither side is clean. The Ukraine is not a democracy and Nazis do exist. But Russia invaded.""

Agreed, and this is in my opinion the end of the discussion. Ukraine is not a shiny democracy free of corruption, but that doesn't matter: Russia invaded, they are in the wrong and they should lose.

> "They are also doing evil things. They are fighting and acting like WW2 Commies.""

Here I disagree. During WW2 they were in the right side. They essentially got the world rid of Nazism, and let's all remind Nazi Germany wanted to exterminate all Slavs. No, not control them or turn them into puppet states, but physically exterminate them and wipe them from the face of the Earth. Including not only Russians, but also Poles and yes -- Ukrainians as well, except those few deemed "Germanizable".

So if the Russians today were "like WW2 commies" they would be truly fighting to rid the world of Nazism. Instead, today they are simply blowing up and (failing to) invade sovereign countries.

> "I think they should be called "Neo-Soviets" from now on."

Hard to, given that Putin has denounced communism and Russia today is anti-communist. Totalitarian? Sure. But of the corrupt mobster/capitalist kind.

Russia invaded, they are in the wrong and they should lose.

I think most here agree. And even in the USA we have Nazis, although they do little than march around dressed like in a WWII movie, etc. They are not much of a real threat so far. But still show up in the media now & then on a slow day.