"List of 87 Potential Names for Confederate-Named Posts" Topic

Yes all races throughout history practiced slavery.

But for the current enlightened liberal elites it only ever existed in one Country and one race must be punished throughout eternity for it's practice.

I feel like those people in Chicago should pick their own names.

There are a lot of sanitized images around. I grew up thinking Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett were just like Fess Parker.

Its their school and they can rename it.

The "fun facts" section of the Gateway article makes it sound like Boone was made a member of the tribe and was taught woodcraft, sounds like summer camp. Later the Indians who came to his cabin and got a face full of tobacco just left, "knowing they'd been outsmarted". No wonder we keep having these discussions. This has gotta be pretty meaningless to urban kids in Chicago. Fess Parker version was a sign of the times.

There is a middle ground in all of this. I don't feel punished by reality. It's the past, we learn, we move ahead.

So should we let them choose a name no
Matter the individual? Maybe they don't like Martin Luther King High School, Ruth Bader Ginsberg Elementary, Hillary Clinton Middle School … pick your liberal icon.

Lastly are the "offended" willing to absorb the cost of these name changes out of their own pockets? All the things that, that name must be changed on? Of course not! Let the taxpayers do that. They never put their money where their mouths are. "Feelings and emotions man. That's what matters!".

In looking into this, it seems to me that the offended are apparently some of the people living there and going to Daniel Boone or paying for it. I am just saying let them find their own inspiration in their own neighborhood.

A quick check shows how the ethnic demographics of this Chicago urban neighborhood changed by looking at a 1950's class picture and then a photo of todays kids on the playground.

Over a thousand kids, first and second generation immigrants, from 40 different language communities in the district. A former principle talks about how they tried for decades to make a connection to who Daniel Boone was and the actual community, but it was too much of a stretch. This name debate has been going on for many years, it was not part of some recent movement.

I assume these kids parents are paying the taxes that support the school. They vote, they can support or oppose a name change that reflects someone to inspire their kids as part of the melting pot, IMO.

Change is hard. And we do not like it, usually. It also gets exploited by the media, who stoke the outrage and deliver daily doom from the fear factory. We come back for more – I do it. I have been fighting my town government for years over changes. I want my town to look like it did when I was a kid. But I have to let it go and compromise.

It is against my nature to acquiesce to things like this.

What if members of the "Azov Brigade" and their families were given political refuge in this town and became the dominant population. They decided they did not like the new name of the high school, given to honor Ruth Bader Ginsberg, for obvious reasons based on their beliefs and decided instead to change it to Adolph Hitler High School or some other icon of Nazism? Would those espousing easy change today acquiesce so easily? Far fetched, but do you see my point?

In my experience of over thirty years as a teacher – albeit in the UK – none of the pupils seemed to care what their school or their sports houses were called.

One school I worked had houses named after trees – Oak, Ash, Beech et cetera- which seemed perfectly fine – some parents even who had attended the school themselves even asked that their children be put in the same houses as they had been – until the head decided to change them to make them more 'relevant' to the children.

He invited suggestions from the staff. Faced by massive indifference save for a few deliberately jokey replies, he was delighted to receive an idea from an ambitious young woman on the staff that they be called Red, Green, Blue and Yellow.

We had a large number of children from South East Asia in the school (many of their parents worked for the Brunei High Commission and other embassies). My wife is a Filipina, so I took great delight in informing him in the staff meeting of the house naming that in her country, and in other countries in that part of the world, 'Red House' is a euphemism for a brothel.

Alas, even the spectre of eleven year old girls going home and telling their parents that the head had put them in 'The Red House' failed to dissuade him…

I do see your point, 35th. There are times when changes are too partisan, and there are times when the consensus may be that some things are so extreme as to go against what few more or less universal norms we have left. As in the example you gave. There are no Hitler public schools anywhere on earth that I know of.

I especially agree that changing names or removing statues does not always make sense, and I have often said that some statues may just need to have additional information displayed to give them context. But I am a middle ground guy.

IMO the Daniel Boone community, which has been thinking about this for a long time, are free to engage in a democratic process for change. It's too bad outside media had to pile in with an agenda in this case. The people there have rights, they are free to make their choices as any community is. They will not be picking Hitler or other obvious names that nearly all of us equate with evil.

Arthur, I think you are right about most students not caring. It the parents who are usually opinionated. But, in your case it sounds like one guy made the choice, based on….himself? I guess at least the kids will all know their colors!

Here, let's get the real reasons for the name change. I mean it's not like it's an agenda driven city wide initiative. Some might say nationwide.

According to them, Old Daniel is a "historically egregious figure".

(Sung to the theme of the Daniel Boone Show)
"Daniel Boone was a man. Yes a BIG historically egregious man. With the eye of an eagle and as tall as a mountain was he."

I believe this is a very small group wanting this and a very easily influenced student group. Notice at the public hearing only what groups were allowed to attend. Wonder why? 🤔

Subject: Daniel Boone Elementary School to ax 'historically egregious' namesake


link

I think this will give some added info. A decent source and from Chicago.

link

Pretty much what the other articles said. It boils down to woke PC thinking. "Immigrants could find no connection". DUH what was Boone? An immigrant. Difference, Boone did the hard work. Put his life and his families life in danger to do it. Lost 2 of them, including his son. The current immigrants, well we can't say the same. No connection to Chicago. Well let me see, if men like Boone had not forged a trail west, Chicago would be a what, today? Then talking about his treatment of the indigenous people! 1) there are no indigenous people in the US, everyone immigrated. Just a matter of time. 2) I don't see these current squatters giving the land back to the "indigenous" people. Does that not make them just as "evil" as the "egregious" Daniel Boone. Come down from the holier than thou pedestal lefties, your souls are just as dirty.

A lot of this is just difference in tone between the Trib and the Examiner, which in fairness is an opinion newspaper.

What I don't like about this situation pis that it appears as if not everyone from the district was allowed attend the meeting. What reason….no one explains. Otherwise it looks like a fair process, which I think is up to them.

What is also wrong here IMO is the characterization of Boone. If you want someone else fine. Take a vote. But give Boone's story some more context, he deserves to have his accomplishments noted as well. Nothing is simple about our history and race, explain the whole story.

With that we agree. 🙂

If you keep in mind that the goal here is to erase our history, then everything will make sense.

B

I should say, I agreed with the 3rd paragraph. 🙂

I think the problem is at some point 'someone' changed the Great American Melting Pot to the American Quilt. In the past we expected immigrants to learn about Daniel Boone, now they expect Americans to learn about Mohammed. I think it's a recipe for the eventual Balkanization of the country.

People were expected to assimilate. That is no longer the expectation. We now have areas that print books in both Spanish and English and teach in Spanish in schools. Being multi lingual is not an issue. But you should learn the predominant language of a country to assimilate into it. The same with the history of that country. You can be proud of your past, but realize it is your past. Yes, otherwise you end up with the Balkans and the Middle East.

Maybe. If we look back at the waves of Irish, Germans, Italians, they all took time to assimilate, but when they did we had the melting pot.

Now we have many more backgrounds. Some have assimilated faster than others, more completely. Eventually they all still will, I believe.

Where we differ is that the history I learned in school and on Disney is not the full story. We need to honor good qualities in some figures, acknowledge and sometimes forgive their faults, and move on. But any citizen in this school district should be able to support or oppose a name change. It's their district.

Tort where we defer on this is, this is not an isolated incident. There is a pattern and agenda going on. It started with the Confederate flag and moved on to Confederate statues. Progressed to other statues, Columbus, Teddy Roosevelt, Jefferson, Madison, even Washington. School names, street names, building names, team names, mascots. I believe the agenda is to tear down and destroy our heritage and our history. We have a small but very vocal group doing this, with the support of many in the liberal elite. Where do we stop this? Next will be Confederate statues in Civil War battlefields. You cannot even sell Confederate battle flags in the stores in the Gettysburg battlefield park. "No stand alone representations of the Confederate flag". These people who claim they are offended, do not give a rats a#s if I am offended by their actions.

"But any citizen in this school district should be able to support or oppose a name change. It's their district."

Two items to consider -

1 – The above assumes that the political/bureaucratic process in operation even recognizes the right of the general public to make their feelings known.

2 – How often should such re-naming campaigns be repeated? With every census? With every court decision? Is anything historically sacred?

It get very complicated very quickly, except foe the well funded political activist class intent upon advancing with their own agendas.

B

It was a well funded political activist class intent upon advancing their own agendas who who raised a lot of the CSA monuments during the early part of the 20th century when the lost cause narrative was in full swing, then again as a reaction to the civil rights era in the 60s.

The Civil War is tough to deal with these days. I do not believe in celebrating the Confederacy. But I do not want to see every statue, name, monument destroyed either. I think people have a right to object to them, but I would rather see them more fully explained and given context.

I do not like the idea of going around looking for things to tear down. I do not want the past erased, but I also do not want it distorted as the lost cause era did. Not once was the Tulsa massacre ever mentioned in any school I ever attended.

Its painful and difficult to deal with all of this, no simple answers. I have had mixed feelings. But when I saw the Confederate battle flag brought into the Capitol by force on Jan.6, after so many gave their lives to keep it out 160 years ago, I was profoundly affected. Sad.

One thing that would be a step forward in regards to TMP and granted I may be the only one that thinks so. Is to stop posting topics that are, for the most part only tangential to the Civil War and the gaming there of.

"Why A Second US Civil War Would Be Far Worse Than The First" was another recent classic.

When we get to the point of discussion on the operation of School Boards and Street Names this whole scene just becomes an exercise in people operating their 2nd Amendment rights.

Granted I don't have to read it but the value of military historical debate on this board over the past couple of years has significantly diminished.

Do you mean the 1st Amendment? 2nd is to keep and bear arms.

Slip of the Brain! Although the 2nd is a possibility.

Apologies for the generalisation but the two things often run together.

Tortorella wrote -
It was a well funded political activist class intent upon advancing their own agendas who raised a lot of the CSA monuments during the early part of the 20th century when the lost cause narrative was in full swing, then again as a reaction to the civil rights era in the 60s.

Well, you could look at it this way: they were preserving THEIR history, as they saw it. However viewed, did they erase any history? Did they, for example, disavow/erase the results of the Civil War?

The Civil War is tough to deal with these days. I do not believe in celebrating the Confederacy. But I do not want to see every statue, name, monument destroyed either. I think people have a right to object to them, but I would rather see them more fully explained and given context.

Totally agree. Which is why we are remiss in our obligations as citizens when we stand by and do nothing in the face of these ongoing "historical erasure" campaigns.

I do not like the idea of going around looking for things to tear down. I do not want the past erased, but I also do not want it distorted as the lost cause era did. Not once was the Tulsa massacre ever mentioned in any school I ever attended.

How does the omission of scholastic coverage of the Tulsa Riots serve to discredit sixty years of intensive focus upon equal rights at every single level of the American public educational process? If the story of the Tulsa Riots is added tomorrow as a top priority classroom theme, some new obscure event will be plucked from the historical pages to take its place (I could probably give you five by tomorrow that 90% of the US public is unaware of!). This sudden raising of the Tulsa Riots is nothing more than a propagandistic "waving of the bloody shirt" by the radical left.

Its painful and difficult to deal with all of this, no simple answers. I have had mixed feelings. But when I saw the Confederate battle flag brought into the Capitol by force on Jan.6, after so many gave their lives to keep it out 160 years ago, I was profoundly affected. Sad.

You saw the Confederate Battle Flag brought into the Capitol Building. It is, however, probably fair to say you do not know the motives of the person who was carrying it. It is necessary to keep in mind that we are in the midst of a no-holds-barred political war for the soul of this nation. Just saying.

YMMV, of course.

B

Trajanus, you are right. I used to avoid some of this but I keep getting sucked in. Sign of the times?

Blutarski, I have to disagree. They were erasing the most central part of the story, slavery, creating a sort of warm glow alternative universe.

I did not see Tulsa as a bloody shirt, but maybe it is and I did not get the message. This happens with me,but I am not radical left or right.

I do not know the motives of the person carrying that flag. But since he had broken into the building with a group of people who were yelling some specific things, and I saw and heard them, I drew a conclusion. Inany case,is was a difficult thing for me.

I hope some day they release all the tapes. Right now they are very selective.

The CSA statues were created to erase history, lol, by creating a sanitized version.

People have a right to their local communities, and the ones who made the ruckus about this are locals. Don't like it, move there and push to get whomever you want on the board.

Change anywhere in Chicago via election is a lost cause since the times of Mayor Daley. I hear in voting precincts, "They see dead people voting." 💀 💀 💀

Hi 35thOVI,
I'm from Boston, arguably the 2nd most politically crooked municipality in America next to Chicago.

Nihil est planum.

B (graduate of Boston Latin School, Class of 1966)

I don't think that would happen in the school district elections!

As for those tapes, you do not often get to see and hear history being made so directly. More video seems like overkill, but whatever they do, we have seen and heard what happened with our own eyes and ears.

Tort I think you saw part of what happened. I think You saw the government controlled version. I think there is more than what we saw. Yes they should not have been there, But…. I will leave at that.

Nihil est Planum as the previous writer wrote. 🤔

Love you guys. You bring a smile to my face.

Here we have comments on Gerrymandering when no one is willing to make it flat out illegal.

Why don't we drop a line to the Georgia State House and get a view from them?

I think we can guess what the view is.

Guys did not see a link on gerrymandering. Did I miss it. Gerrymandering is the bane of all elections, no matter which party takes over. They change my county every time a new party takes over. Always along party lines.

First of all, probabilly these military bases doesn't have to be named after confederate generals from the start,after all they've STARTED & fought a civil war against a(rightfully elected) democratic gvt, as if here in Italy we had named anything military related with Bourbons'generals names or other similar. Then I don't understand all this "cancel culture's frenzy" that has drugged the anglo-saxon world, after all surely you aren't the only to had a "troubled" past, I don't see the mongols ask pardon for Genghis Khan's or Tamerlane's massacres, wisely Spain refused to fall in this trap, past sins aren't allowed to stop the modern world. The past was very different from today!

Exactly, past sins are past. The people who suffered them or inflicted them are long dead in most cases. Seems like we have a group in this country and a few others countries, who want to destroy the history of the past or hide it and another group who feel the need become the modern "flagellants".

If you look hard enough you can find fault with every individual. No one is perfect and all have flaws.

"Thou Hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; And then shalt thou see clearly too cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

Back to the OP, I spent two tours assigned to Fort Bragg. I actually think that one of the names is a great option – Fort James Gavin. He was a paratrooper and commander of airborne units.

My oldest son born on the fort is named after him, so perhaps I am biased.

"Jumpin Jim" Good Man.

But now the Devil's Advocate:

What do we really know about Jim? Are there skeletons in his closet? What about his Irish parents, grandparents, great great grandparents? What about his adoptive parents? Wasn't he a coal miner? During the depression, did his adoptive dad sympathize with the Communist party, as some did?

Do you see where I am going with this? It sounds absurd, but that is the mindset that we are dealing with with these "woke" groups, if you are naming something after a "straight white male". Any other group is exempt…..well unless they happen to be a "conservative", then all bets are off and any sex or race is fair game.