"How the Free World could help Ukraine now?" Topic

1. Block VISA nad MASTERCARD. 80% of Russian use those cards, only 20% use their own MIR system. Blocking those cards would push Russian people to bank for cash and overload system; the bankinkg system do not have enough cash for more then say 3 to max 10% of deposits. All those wifes of Russian officers calling: "Sasha, my cards are not working and the bank give me only 100 rubles. I could not buy bread." Really demoralizing.

2. Founding Anti-Putinist Russian Democratic Front. Arming them with money confiscated from Putin, Lawrow, Lukaszenko etc. Those billions can bribe every Russian field officer on Ukrainian front.

3. DO NOT BLOCK INTERNET. Let Anonymous block putinist sites. Maybe even issue letters of marque to western hackers? Flood RUNet with truth. Veritas vos liberabit. We do not want to wage a war with Russian nation but with Putinist regime. Hearts and minds. Show in RUNet the luxury oligarchs live. Western luxury bought with money stolen from Russian people.

4. Internment of Russian citizens supporting Putinist regime – unless they swear allegiance to Russian Democratic Front and publicly condemn Putin and start working with RDF. If they do not want, well, they probably are working against us. They may be our enemy or not, we do not know. So for their own sake we cannot let them be killed during transit to Russia. Of course they would not be hostages, God forbid. For their own safety we would keep them in internment camps along with those Chechen/Syrian refugees. I am sure Chechen veterans would welcome all those oligarch daughters studying at Sorbona. All those desperate calls to papa in Petersburg "to stop the war, please."

4. Give Ukrainians whatever they need. Hope. Promise. Money. Information. Weapons. Volunteers.

5. Send as many mercenaries as possible to all Russian conflict zones: Georgia (this in Caucas), Moldova/Transnistria, Mali, Syria. Use Putinist regime paranoia against them. Pressure on as many fronts as possible. Prove that Russia has not enough manpower to keep all fronts safe.

6. Officialy recognize as new Belarussian president Swiatłana Cichanouska (she won the election, most probably). Help Her found Government In Exile. Give Belarussians choice.

All the above points must be done immediately, frankly: tomorrow.

Do not afraid: China is not prepared to attack Taiwan. China is host to Paralympic Games till 13 March. Not enough fleet ability for now.

As I had explained here: TMP link
if USA wants to keep USA unilateral hegemony, USA has to fight for it. Europe will help, especially those close to Russia, but USA has to show us determination.

Russia is waging proxy war (per procura) with US guaranteed world. Its already Russia vs USA/Free World war, we just deny it.

Whole Polish Army is pinning Russian 1st Guards Tank Army across Bug. Romanians and Moldovans are keeping an eye on Transnistria. Whole Scandinavia (even Sweden and Finnland) is on alert, the same with Turkey (for whom Russians in Kiev is red line). I heard that even France send special forces to "defend (evacuated) Kiev embassy".

But we need USA leadership. ASAP.

As a wargamers we often wonder, why – to stop Hitler – didnt West want to lose just money in 1938 neither thousands of people in 1939 nor tens of thousands of people in 1940 and finally lose millions of people in next years. Well, we are during process of observing such situation today. I am afraid our grandchildren will criticize us and say: "didnt they see that Ukraine was so important? Weren't they blind?"

Short answer: Sending the Ukrainians as much equipment we can. And sanction everything and anybody Russian.

USA leadership is certainly important … but … 'nuff said …

Oh and 7. kick Russia from UNSC by General Assembly.
Resolution 377, also known as the "Uniting for Peace" Resolution. The measure states that, in the event that the Security Council cannot maintain international peace, a matter can be taken up by the General Assembly.

Love all suggestions.

Not sure about kicking Ivan from the Security Council. Not because of any sympathy, but it leaves the NEXT Russian Government its pride and a voice in correcting the sins of the past.

TVAG

Just saw a report that France is allowing the many Ukrainian members of the Foreign Legion to take "home leave."

#3 – that assumes you trust a group with "variable" beliefs and goals as to who is "good" and "bad". Will Russian hackers answer back and start hitting soft targets in the US? I wouldn't put it past them. Once you give the green light to these non-gov't entities will you let them off the hook for anything else they'd like to do? Much like NBC warfare, it's not controllable and very likely will come back to bite.

#5 – Isn't it illegal for US citizens to be involved in mercenary activities outside of US contractors? And when those contractors get killed does the US then send in regular military troops?

USA wants to keep USA unilateral hegemony, USA has to fight for it

Speaking for myself the US should not be in the hegemony business, frankly the US has spent far more people and money than should ever have been spent on other's defense and shady US "goals". Now the "oh we need bases all over the Baltic" talk has started.

I hear Germany is now going to start funding defense, about time. Maybe they should be dealing with this.

And pray.

Good suggestions. I think the USA should do everything short of sending in troops. We should send all Russians in the USA back home and stop all trade with Russia. We also need to announce our war aims. Restoration of all Ukrainian territory back to 1992 borders and withdrawal of all Russian troops as well as reparations to Ukraine for damages inflicted.

Prayer should be your first choice, not your last resort.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Putin is learning a hard truth. When you surround yourself with flunkies, you end up surrounded by flunkies.

But we need USA leadership. ASAP.

LOL! Americans need USA leadership, instead the current Admin is shutting *down* new oil and natural gas projects, leases and pipelines…and enforcing a form of political loyalty tests on the US military, having tasked 6 million man-hours of time towards analyzing the Military's role in stopping climate change…

Sean Penn says the US should intervene. That surprised me.

I wonder if NATO troops will have to intervene to clean up the mess after Putin's government falls. That would mean going in to help with relief efforts in Ukraine.

Does beg the question.

If Discount Stalin manages to collapse his own government while attempting to control another sovereign nation, does the US and/or Europe need to actually secure the Russian nuclear arsenal?

Frankly that thought terrifies me.

Canada is in the free world?
Last two years were a strange kind of free.
Oh thou that believe medias…wait till History and balanced, researched Facts tell you the story. Past decades shoukd teach caution to those few with curiosity.

Of course Canada is free. Ridiculous statement. There are some that bleat about the freedom not to wear a mask, or not to get a vaccine, and that's somehow against the law, or the charter.

Why weren't they bleating about required vaccines in school? Can't go to school without legally mandated vaccines. Why weren't they yammering about the freedom to smoke in restaurants or movie theaters? You can't do that in Canada; obviously a Fascist state.

Why must you wear clothes in the office? That too is a law; aren't your "freedoms" being infringed? Why can't you drive home drunk? Sure, you're putting the lives of innocents at risk, but hey – if it's inconvenient for you, then isn't that curtailing your "freedoms"?

tony s: the whole Canada debate is in the Lounge already. Read and enjoy. I will say, the conversation did not go well for the Prime Minister.

Short memories quickly erased by new merdia noise. That's what they wamt.

Isn't it illegal for US citizens to be involved in mercenary activities outside of US contractors?

It depends, there are some gray areas there. Regardless with the UN, etc., says, etc.

And when those contractors get killed does the US then send in regular military troops?

I've never heard or remember anything like this happening. In A'stan & Iraq there were many PMCs. Of all nationalities. They work with the US Military. Many of them were Americans.

Just saw a report that France is allowing the many Ukrainian members of the Foreign Legion to take "home leave."

Viva le' Legion !

Sean Penn says the US should intervene. That surprised me.

We need to know that celebs' opinions mean 0 …

I wonder if NATO troops will have to intervene to clean up the mess after Putin's government falls. That would mean going in to help with relief efforts in Ukraine.

If Putin's gov't falls and IMO that is a big if. It may be UN troops. Many nations obviously belong to both the UN and NATO. UN units helping out regardless of their UN or NATO affiliation could occur … That should be a UN mission … Not NATO … Light Blue helmets, berets, etc.

SBminiguy +1

AUUGGG!

So we can take that as a NO vote ?

Well Turkey has now said it will restrict access to the Black Sea for Russian warships.

Putin's rolodex is beginning to look very thin. Modi may will to do transactions in Rupees with Russia, though international pressure may yet get that. Bolsonaro's mindless cheer leading is not really going to help (a government with possibly less oars in the water than Putin).

Well, they are now going through the General Assembly to pass a resolution for a humanitarian corridor. So I guess we could see NATO pushing into the west of Ukraine under a UN mandate.

1. Block VISA nad MASTERCARD

Done and checked.
link

2.Founding Anti-Putinist Russian Democratic Front

Done and checked.
link

4. Give Ukrainians whatever they need. Hope. Promise. Money. Information. Weapons. Volunteers.

Doing, checked,
70 aeroplanes from EU today, armed and tanked. TMP link
Volunteers pour from all over the world.
Weapons from all the world fly to Poland and then to Ukraine.
All world hackers are hitting the Putin regime.
Thanks in part to US help, Ukraine has better information about Russian forces that Russian HQ.

I've heard rumours, that Romania and Moldova are preparing liberation of Transnistria, if Russian forces attack from Transnistria at Odessa. Then Moldova (+Transnistria) could be unified with Romania and be part of EU (and NATO!) as a part of Romania without long process. Simillar Georgia is looking at Abhasia and Osetia.

Just saw a report that France is allowing the many Ukrainian members of the Foreign Legion to take "home leave."

France allowed for Legionners to join Ukraine Force "WITH THEIR FULL EQUIPMENT".I wonder if not with weapons.

So far, so good. Would be nice to have US Armoured units near Lublin and Bug river, in case we need to help democratic new government of Belarus on behalf of UN (which would mean cutting Russian units west of Kiev).

that is a fake new coming from Belarus refuted by the French Army recalling that the Legionnaries, whatever their nationalities are under contract with the French Army until the end of their enlisment
the French Army has sent 500 men, Alpine Chasseurs, an Infantry company and an armored squadron in Romania facing Moldova Transnistria Ukraine

Yeah, it looked too good. Thank You for correcting. Does those French unit has any amphibious capability?

Lot of people itching for WWIII here.

If any of these 'ideas' came to pass we'd be in a shooting war with the Russians over something that is nothing to do with NATO.

All NATO countries should keep themselves on a short rein.
Anyone leaving Britain to fight in Ukraine should be arrested as it is illegal for UK citizens to go and fight against a country we are at peace with.

We remain at peace with Russia, thank God.

I'm not pro Putin, but starting a war between nuclear powers doesn't seem a very bright idea to me.

As of this morning it is reported that the US is still importing 1 billion dollars worth of Russian crude. Europe is also still importing Billions worth to. So we are all still Complicit in financing Putin's campaign. Until this stops, we are really just doing lip service.

Our President could rescind all the anti oil executive orders he signed at the beginning of his administration and allow us to increase our production again. Restart the pipeline. So far he will not. Instead he begs OPEC to produce more and taps our reserves. This is strictly to appease a specific voting block. Disagree, I don't care. It is what it is. Even if you don't believe it would help, at 100 dollars a barrel, it would help pay for the massive debts we currently have.

The cost of 1 stinger missile is over 119 thousand dollars, according to the web. That oil tax money would sure help. Add that to the other weapons we are supplying.

So 2 things that could be done now that would help.

Gwydion – it is illegal under an 1870 Act of Parliament, but it has rarely been enforced and, as far as I know, was not done so much in the SCW and International Brigades. There was too much popular sympathy for those who went to fight fascism. Maybe the Ukrainians could offer immediate citizenship to any British person who tried to enlist, giving dual nationality? Not that it would be a good idea for anyone to go who didn't have military training, except to free up a Ukrainian soldier from a rear area role to go to the front. I believe you have to show your military service when you apply to help, so I expect the Ukrainians will weed out those that would not be much help.

Anyone assuming that NATO special forces are already in theatre on a "plausible deniability" role?

the French Army has sent 500 men, Alpine Chasseurs, an Infantry company and an armored squadron in Romania facing Moldova Transnistria Ukraine

Good intel ! Thanks !

Does those French unit has any amphibious capability?

Somewhat limited … The US could support those ops, but they must be for transport only. No Amphib assaults that would be an act of war. NO one Wants WWIII … Even Putin …

So I guess we could see NATO pushing into the west of Ukraine under a UN mandate.

Unlikely, those could be non-NATO forces, NGOs, etc. Don't want to risk Putin thinking this is a NATO invasion. Disguised as humanitarian aid. He thinks that way, AFAIK. But Blue Helmets, Berets, etc., may be seen after Putin's War is over. Those will probably non-NATO forces.

Lot of people itching for WWIII here.

I don't see that and again, No one wants WWIII especially with Nuclear Powers involved. Putin included …

As of this morning it is reported that the US is still importing 1 billion dollars worth of Russian crude.

Sadly AFAIK that is correct. The US has the ability to be energy independent, again as it was 18 months ago. The US could replace all the oil that Putin sells which helps fuel Putin's/Russia's income for their war machine. But that would not work with the large Go Green "cultists" in power in elected & appointed positions in the USA.

So I guess the US has to buy Russian, Saudi, etc., oil to give the oil the US needs to run/operate ?

Is that oil any different than US oil ? Cars, trucks, etc., using foreign oil still pollutes … yes ?

Anyone assuming that NATO special forces are already in theatre on a "plausible deniability" role?

Unlikely, but it is possible. However, I doubt it. It could trigger WWIII. I think CIA are more likely. We probably will never know.

Bottom line we don't want to do something that Putin could see as an act of war. Or trigger NATO Article 5 … NO ONE not even Putin wants WWIII.

I also heard that US natural gas is thirty some percent cleaner than Russian.

One could assume that, that is because of their heavy cabbage, onion and potato diet. 😉😂 I just could not resist that.

Everything is so depressing. 😢

These French units in Romania are mainly mountain troops such as the 27e BCA and 4e Chasseurs for the armored cavalry squadron both belonging to the 27th Alpine/Mountain Brigade more one mechanised infantry company,
so no Marine Infantry units from 9th Marine Infantry Brigade able to amphibious operations

But that would not work with the large Go Green "cultists" in power in elected & appointed positions in the USA

You do realize going green means energy independence, yes?

I suspect that datum is one that encouraged Putin to invade now, rather than later. Germany plans to be green by 2035. France is ramping up construction of new fission power plants. The experimental ITER fusion plant is nearing completion. I know fusion power has been ten years away from success for decades now, but there have been some real advances towards that energy source.

All that means is that in the near future, Europe will not be as dependent on Russian oil or gas. So Putin's ability to blackmail Europe into complying with his wishes is probably going to rapidly diminish with a few years.

These French units in Romania are mainly mountain troops such as the 27e BCA and 4e Chasseurs for the armored cavalry squadron both belonging to the 27th Alpine/Mountain Brigade more one mechanised infantry company,
so no Marine Infantry units from 9th Marine Infantry Brigade able to amphibious operations

Great intel again … But the 9th Marines do have amphib capabilities ? Which would be limited to them … I take it … ?

You do realize going green means energy independence, yes?

Yes it does … but again the US was energy independent 18 months ago. Using oil, etc., … which is not Green. However, we'd all like to see a solution to get rid of fossils fuels. Solar & Wind has been around for a long time. But can't provide all the power the US requires. The tech is not there … yet … AFAIK …

This is not the time on the verge of a possible WWIII to not use all our oil asset. Again, to produce enough oil to support Western Europe. To take Putin's oil money away for now.

Fix this now in the short term, neutralize Putin now. Then worry about Going Green.

All that means is that in the near future, Europe will not be as dependent on Russian oil or gas. So Putin's ability to blackmail Europe into complying with his wishes is probably going to rapidly diminish with a few years.

Yes, read what I already posted here.

As the Titanic was taking on water. Would they decide it would be a good time to change the color of the carpet ?