"Divisions of Steel by PSC" Topic

Has anyone picked these up yet? Any thoughts or reviews out on the internet that I've missed.

Normally, I'm an early adopter and pick up WW2 rules just to see their approach or see if there are ideas I can steal for scenarios. I didn't in this case because:

A) it's 25 gbp for the PDF
B) the Army lists are an additional purchase and are very narrow in scope, Micromark style
C) the rules are in a weird simulation spot where the expectation is that a player will control multiple companies, usually one infantry and one tank but not a full Battalion. Not sure what the players role is supposed to be?

The ground scale is usually 1"=25m with 1:1 for vehicles and guns but 1 base = 1 squad for infantry.

So, much like War on the Ground, I'm interested in learning more, but they aren't making it easy…

Thanks!
Ed

"WHAT SIZE OF GAME IS DIVISIONS OF STEEL?
Divisions of Steel is for games above single company level, and you can then take it as large as you like. A standard competition army on a 6' x 4' table will be about 2 companies a side, which will be about 14 infantry bases and 14 tanks, HQ bases and a few attached platoons. It will often be a mixed force where a lead Battalion Headquarters (BHQ) has been given overall command – so a classic Kampfgruppe. If it is of low quality and all infantry and anti-tank guns (ATGs) you might get close to a full infantry battalion in your army; if you want lots of SS and Tigers, it will be much smaller."
Taken from the Chapter 1 pdf available from the publisher's site here:
divisions-of-steel.co.uk/dos

@Noggin2Nog – yep, I read the online Chapter 1. In some cases you can rationalize the level of command as a weak Battalion kampfgruppe for the Germans, but not all. It is much harder to rationalize that for other armies throughout the war. Maybe late war Soviet Forward detachments?

So I know what kind of forces the game wants to put on the table and why. The Victrix rules set War on the Ground has a similar scope.

I just find it a weird scope, neither Company Command nor Battalion Command. Add in a competition focus (I.e. dynamic points adjustment) with an emphasis on really historically specific Army lists and it just seems odd.

I'm interested in the command & control system and how easily it's hackable to run historical scenarios. The weird scope makes that more of a challenge

Ed

Sounds like it is pitched at the same level as Crossfire or O Group. Company to Battalion is actually quite sensible as in attack:defence you can have a company defending vs a battalion attack.

I guess the 'two companies each' thing is more for mythical encounter battles.

Doesn't seem to be getting much take up unlike O-Group when it released. Catalogue of typos and errors on the forums and this for a £25.00 GBP PDF! A PDF with no lists, no army builder, no points cost and even when you buy the army lists it seems there are countless missing vehicles.

Looks like a rushed release of a not yet complete publication to me with the author saying it came out in PDF because of covid supply chain problems, a problem no other publisher seems to be facing. Maybe the other publishers are more convinced that their books will actually sell. The activity on the forums for it is 95% from various flavours of admin / author with just one or two others (the player base?) making up almost all of the remainder. Hardly taking the gaming world by storm.

Hard pass for me given the quality of the competition out there especially given the price for what is a partially complete project.

I have to agree with Empgamer, and I bought the PDF hoping for an immediate connection.

One of the first things I did was print out the QRS page on unit activation, which seems one of the core elements of the design. Well, there's a section for this that I can't read, the print being so small.

Then, there's need of the colored dice to easily interface with the rules (are those now available)?

Lastly, complexity. (I'm so done with complexity at my life stage, and this largely dictated by how we get together and play games in the area here).

The rules might play very well in fact, with the time devoted to learn them (my group doesn't have the luxury of that time anymore).

Hi guys,
I felt obliged to respond to some of your comments, many of which are perfectly fair.
The lists are growing very rapidly thanks to Mark Bevis.
A points system and the army builder are being worked on at the moment.
The special dice have been available for some years.
Actually the rules are not at all complex, and I am very glad that they are not.
Having played half a dozen small games already I have found them to be uniquely interactive and tactically very challenging.
Covid has severely restricted the requirements for extensive play testing. Yes there are shortfalls in some of the text but this will be corrected very soon.
These will be a very good set of rules.
Lance.

Do see wider post.

The intent isn't yet to set the world on fire. That;s for next year.

There are not many erratq so far. There is a stream for them but the list is pretty short. Its mainly people clarifiying intent is as written and suggesting a few things that make it clearer still which is all good stuff.

The aim on the rules it to do what Mortem et Gloriam has done for Ancients. Best feel for a battle of the period with limited extra complexity on anything out there today. I am doing videos later this week on key concepts at which point you may see why they should grab your attention in due course – either as an early adopter who wants to be part of the 2022 jounrey, or in 2023 once PSC publish everything fully. They play really well and in a unique way. But all change takes effort and time …

Si

PS the new tank models in 10mm are superb as well. How do we post images here?

The rules are a battalion set. Playable for shorter games as down to 2 companies. A BHQ would often have only 2 companies and bits. Happened all the time.

They are then easily extendable upwards to Regimental or beyond. I am a big refight fan at heart. The Demo game is an entire British Infantry Battlion and gradual support from 2 armoured Sqaudron against a hotchbotch late German Kampgruppe with 2 BHQs involved.

But for events it will tend to be a Battlegroup under a BHQ that is smaller so the games are then 2 1/2 hours.

So in short its …. always above company CHQ level and then everything is possible.

Feel free to ask question here although they will get a faster answer on the forum if you join that.

All good fun

"I'm interested in the command & control system and how easily it's hackable to run historical scenarios. The weird scope makes that more of a challenge

Ed"

To be clear on design approach. It's always design for refights first so you will find the C&C system works really well tog et refights feeling historically sensible. THEN adapted to allow competitions from there which is where the 2 company BG tends to come in more. So historical feel first, comps second. It was the same with Mortem et Gloriam and why it won awards for its historical feel.

So the comp games is the fudge in design always as it needs to just have enough to stuff to get results in about 2 1/2 hours. Thats it. But neatly an understrength Battalion vs a Kampfgruppen land snicely for that.

S