"Real size of Warlords Epic Scale?" Topic

Hi, I was wondering if anybody here knows the size in mm of the Black Powder Epic Scale ACW/Waterloo figures.

I have a bunch of Old Glory's 15mm French and I would like to know that if I buy the BP Epic Battles Waterloo: Wellington's British box, if would be able to use them with my OG's 15mm French.

Thanks.

They are 13.5mm. They are their own scale and are really not made to go with anyone else's figures. Some people report that Kallsitra's 12mm line is a close-enough match.

13.5mm foot to eye

Guess they wont match iwth my OG's 15mm. Thanks guys.

As previously stated, 13.5mm.

I took some photos of my Waterloo sprues next to the Epic Scale Civil War to give an idea:

Just another marketing ploy by Warlord.
If you have existing "15mm" or "10mm" Napoleonic figures this new range will not match them. I don't have Old Glory Napoleonics, but do have their SYW and I would say they are " tall 15mm", so would definitely not match the Epic Napoleonics. I suspect the Epic may be close to the very earliest "15mm" range from Minifigs which were sold as strips of figures; older readers will probably remember these.
Kallistra do not do any Napoleonics, although their ACW just about match the Epic ACW.

Warlord's marketing ploy is easily solved with a 3d printer.

DeRuyter.
Possibly, for those new to Napoleonic wargaming. Means a fairly substantial investment though and many of us still prefer metal figures in scales we already own.

Some people say that these new Napoleonic figures are a bit larger and taller than the ACW ones, so they are compatible with other 15mm figures, excluding their heavy cavalry (the horses are too small for heavy cavalry, but they are fine for light cavalry).

Looking at those photos, I think the infantry figures are a bit taller, larger and bulkier than the ACW ones.

Well for me personally, this new proprietary scale that Warlord has created is perfect for me.

I already do AWI in 28mm with armies made up the usual metal figures mounted to bases.

I've always wanted to do ACW and Naps. as well but simply don't have the storage space at this stage of my gaming life to do them in larger scales. And I already went through once the process of laboriously building armies with the numerous seperate packs of AWI minis. from various ranges.

This new multi-based strip system is perfect for painting armies quickly, and the scale is small enough where you don't have to obsess over some of the tiny details. Yet the scale is large enough to see the colors of units "pop" on the tabletop.

I don't see how this is a "marketing ploy." We already have 6mm, 10mm, 12mm, 15mm, 18mm, 20mm, 25/28mm.

So now we so have 13.5mm.

Of COURSE Warlord wants you to buy only their Civil War and Waterloo Epic Scale ranges! But doesn't Kallistra want you to game Civil War in 12mm with their range?

The fact that Epic Scale won't mix well with most other scales doesn't bother me in the least. I'm happy to buy a few of the value bundles from Warlord and I've got everything I need for both armies, and it's all scaled to each other.

And 8 years to paint it all 😀

I've never understood the "this won't match that" argument. If you are using Company X in 15mm surely that ecosystem is enough.

I have started painting my French Starter and really don't care it doesn't fit with other manufacturers. Warlord is making what I need and honestly I am more interested in using them to play Lasalle vs Black Powder.

Using Citadel Contrasts, and now the new Speedpaints, I am getting through a sprue of Waterloo in just a couple afternoons.

So that's a full four-base battalion of 80 figures every couple days.

So in a couple weeks of work, you can get about seven battalions done.

That's not a bad pace, very doable.

I've never understood the "this won't match that" argument. If you are using Company X in 15mm surely that ecosystem is enough.

Well, it is easy to understand. Many people prefer to collect miniatures from different manufacturers in order to add variety.

I love Napoleonic miniatures and uniforms. So, I prefer a lot of variety instead of a mass of automatons. This robotic monotony is especially evident in the case of Warlord Epic "ecosystem".

If you want to add some variety to your armies, you have to include miniatures from different manufacturers.
That is the reason behind the argument "this won't match that". As you can see, it is easy to understand.

If you are content with the monotonous "Warlord ecosystem", it is fine. It is your choice, but you should show respect towards other options and "arguments".

@Ruchel,

Yes but….a mass of automatons is EXACTLY what Napoleonic armies were!!

I find is astonishing that you suggest that Warlord is portraying the Napoleonic era as if it was all one generic uniform. It most certainly is NOT. It's giving you the basic shape and cut of uniforms and equipment that was found on 99% of Napoleonic infantry, cavalry, and artillery and then you have the opportunity to paint the distinctive colors for different units.

I mean, how is that different from say, buying 28mm Perry Napoleonics. Don't they sell packs of standardized "line infantry" or "foot infantry" which you then can paint up with different facings, cuffs, shako decorations, etc? Their plastic boxes even more so. You get 38 or so models dressed the same way in maybe two poses, then you are left to paint it as a specific unit.

The differences in colors between uniforms for the British say, is found mostly in the cuffs, collars, facings, and regimental flags. Ummm, so how does Warlord get it wrong? You can paint the cuffs and other things in different colors which gives you your different foot regiments.

Same goes for the French. You've got a mass of men in shakos, jackets, and trousers, and most of the differences between French units is again, differences in cuffs, collars, but also in their case the shako pompoms and shako finials. Or the shoulders, which are different colors for say, Voltigeurs which were green for example.

Adding variety to your miniatures as you say, doesn't mean mixing different aesthetics that don't work together. If you mix several manufacturers of 15mm British Napoleonics together for example, you still have to paint the unit properly with matching facings, cuffs and the like.

Now if we're talking about different POSES well then you do have a point. But again, the nature of Napoleonic warfare was exactly those masses of lines of men that Warlord is giving you. Wouldn't you say that it doesn't really make a lot of sense to base Napoleonics haphazardly on a base with all different kind of miniatures in different positions as if they were all skirmishing in a disorganized mess? That's not how Napoleonic armies fought.

And to add to the point, Warlord Games provides the French Voltigeurs in a variety of poses to represent them as being skirmishers.

The "robotic motonony" as you describe it is precisely the essence of Napoleonic warfare. The variety in uniform and character isn't found in making each and every sculpt a unique character. But rather in making the generic detail crisp enough so you can paint in those different distinctive colors for different units.

I really find your take on this to be rather baffling, all due respect.

@Ruchel,

The other thing that I don't understand is, how does Warlord's Epic Scale affect you in any way?

Right now, you can buy Napoleonic miniatures from literally dozens of manufacturers in literally any scale: 6mm, 10mm, 12mm, 15mm, 18mm, 20mm, 25/28mm 40mm, even 1/72, 1/35, and 1/48. Metal, plastic, resin, you name it.

You have massive amounts of choices!

You're portraying Warlord as if they are somehow personally denying you choices.

You don't like the aesthetic of Warlord's Epic Scale, that's totally fine.

And my solution to that is – ummm – don't look at it and don't buy it?

I mean it's like creating something to be angry about when there isn't anything to be angry about.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy. I'm just saying that nobody is limiting your choice. Warlord isn't doing this to deny you choice. It's simply another Napoleonic product out there now added to all the other ones.

I think some of the disappointment people have with the Warlord Epic is that they were hoping it would be like Warlord's 28mm offerings:box sets of bulk plastic figures that are cheap and compatible with other lines.

The fact that people haven't got what they were hoping for is no reason to criticise Warlord. Nobody has any less choice than they had before. And the opportunity is still there for another company to give the people what they want!

it's like creating something to be angry about when there isn't anything to be angry about.

I think it's a case of ego defense. You don't want to think the decision to complicate your hobby was the wrong one. Therefore a new scale and any popularity thereof is seen as a personal threat.

Interesting thoughts, makes sense.

I didn't mean to be so long-winded in my responses. I guess I was just surprised at that "threat" you describe, and how much it contrasted with my reaction to Epic Scale. Which was that for me it was the perfect historical product that came out at the perfect time for two of my favorite time periods.

It's like if a diner had eight kinds of pie and then one day they added a ninth to the menu. And you felt that it somehow was an assault on the other pie choices, when all you had to do was ignore it!

Yes but….a mass of automatons is EXACTLY what Napoleonic armies were!!

No, you are wrong. They were men, not automatons.

I find is astonishing that you suggest that Warlord is portraying the Napoleonic era as if it was all one generic uniform.

No, I haven't said such a thing.

Now if we're talking about different POSES well then you do have a point.

Yes, that is exactly the point.

But again, the nature of Napoleonic warfare was exactly those masses of lines of men that Warlord is giving you.

Yes, Warlord gives that, but without variety. Soldiers were men, not automatons. Those masses look more realistic and more aesthetic if you include miniatures from different manufacturers. It is evident.

And to add to the point, Warlord Games provides the French Voltigeurs in a variety of poses to represent them as being skirmishers

I am not talking about skirmishers, I am talking about formed troops (close order).

But regarding skirmishers, If you mix miniatures from different manufacturers, the variety is infinitely greater too.

The "robotic motonony" as you describe it is precisely the essence of Napoleonic warfare.

Perhaps the robotic monotony is the essence of Napoleonic warfare (nevertheless it is a bit simplistic opinion), but the robotic monotony is not the essence of Napoleonic soldiers. I repeat: they were men, not automatons.

The other thing that I don't understand is, how does Warlord's Epic Scale affect you in any way?

Well, it affects me in a positive way if I can use it in order to add variety to my armies. Otherwise, it is irrelevant for me.

You have massive amounts of choices!

Yes, that is the point. And mixing miniatures from many different manufacturers in order to add variety is a choice too. So the "this won't match that" argument makes sense, despite the absurd criticism against it.

You don't like the aesthetic of Warlord's Epic Scale, that's totally fine.

I don't like the aesthetic of armies comprised exclusively of Warlord Epic miniatures. But I would like to include three or four units of them in my armies, obviously provided that they are compatible with my other miniatures. As I have said before, I love variety.

I mean it's like creating something to be angry about when there isn't anything to be angry about.

I'm not trying to be a wise guy. I'm just saying that nobody is limiting your choice. Warlord isn't doing this to deny you choice. It's simply another Napoleonic product out there now added to all the other ones.

I think you miss the point here. I have nothing against this Napoleonic product. It is the opposite, I welcome it.
I am angry about some absurd opinions against the "this won't match that" argument.

The fact that people haven't got what they were hoping for is no reason to criticise Warlord.

I am not criticising Warlord, I am criticising other people's opinions against people who prefer to include miniatures from different manufacturers in their armies.

I think it's a case of ego defense.

No, It is a case of criticising your absurd and disrespectful opinion against other people's choices.

You don't want to think the decision to complicate your hobby was the wrong one.

A childish comment. Your simplistic and narrow-minded point of view is unable to understand that other people have another conception of this hobby. Following your reasoning, if their conception is different from yours, they are wrong. As we can see, it is a childish reasoning.

By the way, people who like variety are not complicating matters, they are enriching and improving their hobby.

Therefore a new scale and any popularity thereof is seen as a personal threat

The real "threats" here are your absurd opinions against choices other than yours.

Which was that for me it was the perfect historical product that came out at the perfect time for two of my favorite time periods.

Congratulations! I am glad that you enjoy it.

In my case, I have to check whether those new miniatures match my other miniatures or not. If they are compatible with them, I will buy some in order to include them in my existing armies. I love variety.

For what it is worth, I do not mind mixing manufacturers as long as the difference is not horribly different. I give away my age, but I love the second generation of 15mm Minifigs. At the same time I have a large number of the old Napoleonettes and at game playing distance they all work. My biggest complaint is the "scale creep" which seems to have produced chunkier figures that are easier to paint but lack proportion. In the end if it works for you…. Just my opinion.

@Ruchel Well said, I strictly have purchased AB Naps. My 1806 Prussians have 7 different figure poses for "March Attack" you add in a wounded figure or 2 and an Officer NCO, and drummer and you have allot of variety. I have a good friend that does wonders with attacking lines. But as you said it's all personal choice.

Old Glory and Blue Moon also have variations on the same pose in their bags.