"Lancastrian Handgunners" Topic

5 Posts

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aegiscg47	16 Feb 2022 1:58 p.m. PST
As my WOTR project rolls along, I was thinking of adding a unit or so of hand gunners. Certainly the Yorkists had several and Henry at Bosworth did, but is there any definite information if they were any Lancastrian hand gunner units present at some of the earlier battles? If so, would they have livery coats? Not finding much other than Margaret may have brought some back from France.
Eumelus	17 Feb 2022 3:50 a.m. PST
Someone with more definitive information may correct me, but I would be very surprised if the Lancastrians had any handgunners as field units in any of the early battles (through Towton). As far as I know, Margaret's forces consisted of the retinues of English lords (who might have had the odd handgun as part of castle defense but who would have marched with only warbow archers), supplemented by a Scots contingent at Second St Albans (and maybe Towton? I've never read any account of what happened to the Scots after 2nd SA). Maybe Warwick had some handgunners at Barnet? I've not read any evidence for them, but he did have Continental connections.
Regicide1649	18 Feb 2022 9:45 a.m. PST
I haven't come across any 'definite information' for the 1460s or '70s, but I wonder if that is because unit-breakdown is more of a fascination for modern military enthusiasts than contemporary record-writers? Certain nations could provide contingents skilled in particular weapons; France, Burgundy and the Flemish certainly employed hand-gunners on the Continent ('socket-guns' may be the technical term, to distinguish the mechanism from 'hand-cannons'). This is the age of mimicry of the Swiss pike-block, which included pike, shot, crossbow and swordsmen. If Margaret of Anjou did not bring over hand-gunners as part of the French troops she did bring over, well… she missed a trick.
Warspite1	19 Feb 2022 2:03 a.m. PST
If you check my previous post here: TMP link you will see odd references to hand guns in Lancastrian hands. See 1449: Lord Moleyns (as Lord Hungerford) was a Lancastrian and Lady Paston said he had guns. See 1460: John Dynham was a Yorkist and was clearly shot by a Lancastrian handgun. What we can conclude from this is that handguns had been known in England since at least 1385 (Bodiam Castle, Cooling Castle and the West Gate at Canterbury all have 'upside down keyhole' gunloops) but handguns do not appear in large numbers until the mid-15th century. A small unit or sub-unit of hand gunners in a major Lancastrian lord's retinue, such as the Duke of Somerset, would be OK. In which case the jacket colours would be white/blue when viewed from the front. See: link The nearest man is one of Somerset's retinue. If French handgunners then this is ideal: link French hand gunners at Bosworth – a white cross of St.Denis worn over red but other colours are possible. Barry Slemmings author of Bills, Bows and Bloodshed 2.2
aegiscg47	20 Feb 2022 9:41 a.m. PST
Thanks to everyone for their comments!

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