"trumpeter 2nd french husar uniform colors?" Topic

their soldiers wore brown right? pelise and dolman

Funcken gives pelisse and dolman in chestnut, waistcoat, breeches and cuffs in sky blue, buttons in white.

From "Uniformes des régiments de hussards français…. I. – 1er-6e hussards – aquarelles par René Louis."

link
link

And for the trumpeters after 1803… blue dolman and pelisse. Shako with blue plume (sometimes the shako itself was also blue edged white) and cuff and collar in brown edged white. Brown breeches with white strip. As normal for trumpeters, sheepskin over saddle was black.

From French Hussars vol. 2 by Andre Jouineau

Mark

5 of these guys to go thanks gents joe

[[This note was started before dibble posted his btw…]]

Well now hang on… this is another [case] where illustrations show some variation. Collet Dolman- brun marron for example.

The main colour, is listed as Bleu Céleste in most; but it gets incorrectly cited as 'ciel' =sky blue which in French IS NOT the same as English one. And besides, the 'Céleste' is a darker shade. the 5eme Hussards is the brighter hued bleu regiment throughout.

As in this chart, supplied by an Italian in French:-
link

Best go to the swatches that dibble or someone showed here. [Note these have been degrading with every 'save' made to them by subsequet users, who repost THEIR copy]. I've converted mine to tiff as well, but that is not an Internet compliant 'type' that can be viewed. They are not affected or changed however when transferred to others.

From the limited H&C books I've seen using Jouineau, these too are not completely accurate, but being 'modern' are believed.

The articles by Didier Davin et al are pretty much unimpeachable however- they only carry an in depth article on the 5eme Hussards!

Even the René Louis illustrations Ian cited above do not conform to this criteria. They indeed have brown collars. were they completely reversed for trompettes?

And did every trompette conform as to horse funiture. Seems not. The era is one of revision and re-use of equipment and uniforms, thus the 'Louis illustrations' series seems to be more representative of the mid-Empire period, not early period unless specifically so titled.

Sorry to let the fox out joe…
cheers
dave

Can you repeat that please? as in "every save" I have a fine collection of said plates which are (as with all my pictures) downloaded onto my Photobucket account.

Anyway! When I get home I'll check out the rest of my collection to see what else I have pertaining the 2e Hussards.

From Rousselot

From "Uniformes des trompettes de hussards français, 1787-1813. – Aquarelles par E. Fort"
link
Complete volume at link

From Rigo (colours are actually darker than this version on the internet – i.e. bleu celeste)

nearer the 2nd example:

Bucquoy published a series of cards (will dig out & post):
Serie 138 – Le 2e Hussards
Serie 139 – Le 2e Hussards
Serie 140 – Le 2e Hussards
Serie 169 – Le 2e Hussards

wow those pictures guys thanks get painting now

Dibble's first plate shows the same colour-scheme I have before me in Funcken – i.e. the dolman is more chestnut than tree-bark brown.

Here's the other Pictures I promised.

Boy, this is some great information.

Bucquoy prints at
Serie 138 link
Serie 139 link
Serie 140 link
Serie 169 link
(final one from the 169 series)link

Wow!

PoE – Thank you. What a wonderful book. Who knew there was such showing only plates of French Hussar Trumpeters.
Are there separate volumes with plates of officers and other ranks?

My best regards, sir.

@dibble

I recognise those prints. I bought the set of cuirassier and of the Chasseur a Cheval de la Guard when I visited the Musee de l'Armee in Paris nearly forty years ago. Only two prints were ever framed and hung. They must be here somewhere. I shall find them as my interest in Napoleonic wargaming in again in the ascendancy. Thank you for the reminder.

Have fun.

"bleu celeste" also cited as colour "bleu celeste fonce" making it a shade darker.

joe I'd stay away from anything ACTUAL British/ English sky- blue as it clearly was not that. The prints prove the diversity that creates the overall confusion now.

The variation over the period is broad and so one single illustration isnt ever correct for everything.
1807 and later full shakos with braid and black sabretaches are a warning that they were probably not a transition/ early empire campaigns dress.

1803 dress was still significantly worn in the first campaign through 1806.

SOmeone using 'vandamme' as a handle posted swatches on a BB somewhere, I'm trying to find my notes. Sadly I hadn't added them to The Redux…

tbc___
d

@Cavcmdr

Other volumes on Hussars at:
Uniformes des régiments de hussards français…. I. – 1er-6e hussards / aquarelles par René Louis link
Uniformes des régiments de hussards français…. II. – 7e-14e hussards / aquarelles par René Louis link

joes desire is for uniforms AT AUSTERLITZ, like my own, so looking AND reading Bucquoy, who admittedly isn't infallible we know, but the Col Barbier prints and notes seem most reliable.

The too pale blue trompette shown above is the closest, and the only example of that period wearing a shako cord (red in this case-scarlet?); Barbiers paintings show only white racquettes on rhs of shako. I would say in the correct "bleu celeste" shade he would be a most fitting trompette.

Just the eagle on the sabretache appears later, perhaps 1807 as other attributes changed also.

Also, the inverse coloured cocade, noted as 'different' is on the top rim of the shako, not placed centre front like many show, a later change perhaps.

It was also noted that some officers were depicted with black sheepskins and so a further variant to the norm.

The modern renditions are often high Empire, too perfect and pristine to ever represnt men except on parade.
cheers d

@Cavcmdr

Further from Gallica:
Uniformes des hussards sous la Révolution et le 1er Empire / Aquarelles par Ernest Fort link
Uniformes des hussards sous la 1ère République, le 1er Empire et la Restauration – 1er à 4e hussards / Notes et aquarelles par E. Fort link
Uniformes des hussards sous la 1ère République, le 1er Empire et la Restauration- 5e à 13e hussards / Notes et aquarelles par E. Fort link

Cavcmdr and others:

Would you like me to post more Pierre Conrad plates?

I also have 255 Rigo plates with their descriptions.

I have loads of Rousselot, including his famous plates with descriptions and some of his Autrefois six plate sets, but it's pointless posting them as they are easily accessible on the web and free to download. It's the same with Eduard Detaille. I have all 12 Bucquoy books too which are very heavy on Boissilier but I also have many others by the same artist. lots of Job, Titux, Brunswick, Berka, Zimmerman, Weiland and lots more.

Oh! I almost forgot. I have Elting's 4 volume tour de force 'Napoleonic Uniforms' And the illustrated, first edition of Napoleon's Victories 'Authentic Memoirs of Captain Parquin' first edition by the Werner Company Publishers, Chicago 1893 The book was owned and signed several times by Sterling Morton of Arbor Lodge. Look him up! you will see who he was. Oh! he also wrote in the end-paper "A rare book, published at 25 dollars a copy" in his stylised hand.

It's a shame that Armchair General is defunct because I posted all the Conrad, all the Rousselot, all the Rigo plates and much of what I have mentioned above, on that site.

wow i realy stired up something gents?

no trumpeter but still
link

linki link

oeps mine link

Misinformation minefield.
Thankfully, for most of the period, there were only 10 actual Hussar regiments, even though 12 numbered.
Then you have the moving entropy of stores, regulations, acqusitions (Ferengi and otherwise!) and 'wear till worn out/ lost' rules of command warfare and supply.

I went back to my own references and re-read the '80's' literature that is/ was all the rage.

Haythornthwaites 'Revolution' book trots out the same stuff as orsprays… only recognises (or states) 'sky-blue' as the only other colour different from national blue among ALL the hussars (repeatedly, so it's not an error).

I also noted that he claimed the Carabiniers had red oursin cords after 1801- no-where have I ever seen them!

Looking at Hourtoulle/ Jouineau 'Austerlitz' by H&C p107 we see the same blue applied to the 2eme, 5eme and 16eme Chasseurs. The latter and the 5eme should be bleu de ciel; the former bleu-celeste, yet we don't.

Pragmatism of cheap printing or what? What use then having inaccuracy? I'm sure the good Doctor had it right, but the translation to 'modern' graphics, isn't.
regards d

Hussar colours taken from
link
1796 to 1803
link
1804 to 1812
link
Bonnets
link

Bearskins ol' chap, not bonnets, unless you're not addressing my reference.
BUT I do have a copy of the first table, not the second.

Have no problem with Petards work as he appears in many issues of 'Uniformes' I both subscribed and collected over there…
;-0

@SHaT1984 (Dave),

I wasn't addressing your "Bearskins" – just posting the Bonnets as information to help indicate the range of colours for the later regiments as there is no colour chart for 1813 plus in the volume.

All the best

Ian

Cheers, I hope joe follows your first links anyway-

as the 1804-5 trompette is very likely similar to 1809 model except for scarlet sabretache (probably blue) and simpler cockade shako, not plates.
~d

dear shat1984 as this as i know this is a tough question i take your info most plausible to al guys out there thanks any way