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"Painting help - German 75mm Krupp Mtn Gun" Topic


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31 Aug 2022 8:35 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

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SgtGuinness Supporting Member of TMP28 Jan 2022 4:35 a.m. PST

I'm painting up a German WWI / Colonial Seebattalion Gun Crew and 75mm Mountain Gun. I'm having trouble locating good resources for painting the gun model. I'm using the excellent artillery piece model from Askari Minis and the Tiger Miniatures gun crew. I plan to use the gun and crew for colonial games through early WWI Africa scenarios. For those in the know, did the carriage colors change from 1895 to early WWI? I know some of these guns were confiscated during the Boxer Rebellion, some used in the Herero Revolt, and some used in early WWI East Africa as well as other places and by other countries. I'm actually trying to finish it up shortly as an entry in the 12th Annual Analogue Hobbies Painting Challenge.

link

The only painted Miniatures reference I've found is the 1898 Miniatures in Spanish service during the SAW. I don't know if this would be the same colors used by the Germans in the stated time periods. Any assistance would be most appreciated.

Here's a pic of the beautiful 1989 Minis gun & Spanish crew.

link

rjones6928 Jan 2022 6:05 a.m. PST

Jeff,

Great to hear from you!

The 75mm Krupp Mountain Gun, which is the gun Askari Miniatures sells, was not used by the German colonial forces. The Germans used three 60mm Mountain Guns during the Herero War, and then twelve 75mm Ehrhardt Mountain Guns, manufactured by Rheinmetall not Krupp, during the Nama Wars. Those Rheinmetall guns were also used in WWI.

So, I would paint your gun as a 75mm Ehrhardt (Rheinmetall) Mountain Gun. That gun had a brass-colored barrel, breech and wheel rims, based on the photos:

link

Presumably, the rest of the metal – carriage and fittings – would also be brass-colored.


For a good discussion of German artillery in their colonies, this page on the German Colonial Uniforms site is a good source:

link

Roy

SgtGuinness Supporting Member of TMP28 Jan 2022 6:27 a.m. PST

Good morning Roy,

Thank you for the rapid response!

I've seen that awesome site and already have it book marked. Without seeing the exact model gun there, or anywhere, and not having your knowledge I was really unsure of how to paint it. There aren't many color pictures of German guns from this period in these theaters for me to make a decision on. I really appreciate your input and will paint it as you suggested. Thank you my friend.

Durban Gamer29 Jan 2022 2:46 a.m. PST

I would expect German artillery used in WW1 East Africa to be grey, except possibly for the barrel.

rjones6929 Jan 2022 9:07 a.m. PST

Jeff,

I have some corrections for the color scheme. Everything that's not brass-colored in the photos should be painted sand-colored. So, you have two options:


(a) Paint the barrel and breech brass-colored, and everything else sand-colored. This would be intended to match Gun No. 7 and Gun No. 4, 6, or 10 (see here: link ).

(b) Paint everything, including the barrel and breech, sand-colored to match Gun No. 1.


I would suggest option (a), for reasons discussed below.

Reasons for the corrections:

(1) I neglected to read the following sentence in the description in German Colonial Uniforms:

"It is thought that they were originally painted in a sand colour when delivered to the Schutztruppen".


(2) Last night I received a new, hard-to-find resource from Germany: the war diary of a German artillery commander during the Herero and Nama Wars. It has a contemporary black and white photo from 1905 of a German Mountain Gun during the Nama Wars. The gun looks exactly like Gun No. 1, gun shield and all. It might even be Gun No. 1.

In that contemporary 1905 photo there's no discernable difference in shading between the barrel and the rest of the gun (except for the back of the gun shield), just as there's no difference in color between the barrel and the rest of the gun in the photo of Gun No. 1 (except for the black wheel rims, which are a modern touch).

More specifically, the barrel is NOT brass-colored. So, I would conclude that Gun No. 1 was originally all sand-colored. If it's the same gun as in the contemporary photo, it would have been manufactured no later than 1905. If the numbering system aligns with date of manufacture, in fact it would have been manufactured in 1904.

For Gun No. 7, on the other hand, the barrel and breech ARE brass-colored. The rest of the gun is all another color. I would conclude originally sand-colored.

Gun No. 7 was manufactured in 1908 – too late to participate in the Nama Wars (the Nama Wars ended in March 1908, and no artillery accompanied the camel-mounted Expeditionskorps in that year). Whether earlier guns with brass barrels (e.g., Gun No. 4, 6, or 10) were used in the Nama Wars, I don't know off the top of my head.

But Gun No. 7 was definitely deployed in WWI, as was Gun No. 4, 6, or 10.

So, I would suggest option (a) – paint the barrel and breech brass-colored, and everything else sand-colored – for maximum flexibility of use.

Roy

rjones6929 Jan 2022 9:12 a.m. PST

I would expect German artillery used in WW1 East Africa to be grey, except possibly for the barrel.

The guns were originally used in German Southwest Africa, from 1904-1915. They were only briefly used in East Africa in 1917 by the British, after they had been captured during the Southwest African campaign.

SgtGuinness Supporting Member of TMP01 Feb 2022 5:26 a.m. PST

Roy, thank you once again sir for sharing your extensive research on this period and taking the time to share all these notes. I greatly appreciate it!

Based on these new notes I will paint my guns with shields a sand color with a wash or dip, and paint the mountain gun without the shield in sand with brass barrel and breech, once again dipped or washed. I'll post pics when done.

Thanks again Roy!!!

SgtGuinness Supporting Member of TMP27 Aug 2022 7:18 p.m. PST

picture

rjones6929 Aug 2022 4:02 a.m. PST

Jeff,

Excellent! Great paint job! Thanks for posting.

Roy

SgtGuinness Supporting Member of TMP29 Aug 2022 1:21 p.m. PST

Roy, I hope you don't mind but I did a blog post about this model and included our conversation. I'll post the link with more pics. I really appreciate all the help with this. As soon as HurriCon-23 is over I'm back to work on my German colonial forces.

rjones6929 Aug 2022 8:10 p.m. PST

Jeff,

Thank you so much for your kind and generous comments on your blog. I really appreciate them.

Roy

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