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"Panzer Grenadier GP Company Formation" Topic


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Berg geit20 Jan 2022 8:53 a.m. PST

I decided to plunge into Crossfire with 6mm figures and want to assemble two forces: A British Infantry Company and a German Panzer Grenadier GP Company (the ones with half-tracks).

I got information about the British Infantry company but I could only find the details of a Panzer Grenadier GP squad. I did scour the internet but couldn't really find anything other than one "manual" which to me is harder to decipher than cuneiform. Surely there must be an easier overview, and that's why I am creating this thread. I can always try again with the manual.

machinehead20 Jan 2022 9:23 a.m. PST

Something like this?
link
link
link

pzivh43 Supporting Member of TMP20 Jan 2022 9:37 a.m. PST

I assume since you mention its opponent is a British infantry company, that your timeframe is 1944-1945? If so, this is seems to be a good reference:

link

You have to scroll down through all the higher organizations to get to the company level. Figure 65 shows the company: a company HQ, 3 PZG platoons, a Hvy Weapons Plt (4 HMG and 2 SP 75mm Inf Guns), and an AA company with 6 20mm guns. Not sure if the IGs were really self-propelled? Hope this helps.

Personal logo Jeff Ewing Supporting Member of TMP20 Jan 2022 9:43 a.m. PST

I've always found Bayonet Strength to be a great resource. For late war British: PDF link

The "self-propelled infantry guns" are the Sdkfz 251/9.

advocate20 Jan 2022 10:21 a.m. PST

Doesn't sound like a fair match, given all the low-level German support. Unless you provide a squadron of tanks and a battery of 25 pdrs for the British which would be entirely reasonable. And they could have access to regimental and division shoots as well, if necessary. Not to mention anti-tank support from battalion or division.

d88mm194020 Jan 2022 12:11 p.m. PST

Crossfire has organizations in the back. Also a very nice way to balance forces.

Thresher0120 Jan 2022 4:49 p.m. PST

Thank you for those links.

They will be helpful to me as well.

I'm surprised to see the SdKfz 251/17 listed, and not the 251/10 in the zugs.

Also, were the SdKfz 251Ds with the long-barreled 75mm guns used to replace the shorter barreled ones at some point in 1944 and beyond, or were they in separate units, for providing anti-armor support?

Finally, is there a TO&E chart or table for the Panzergrenadier, armored-engineer company/battalion, showing the number of SdKfz 251D/16 flamethrower halftracks and other vehicles, troops, and weapons in it too?

machinehead20 Jan 2022 6:08 p.m. PST

Thresher01
link
From here.
link
link

jekinder620 Jan 2022 7:22 p.m. PST

By mid-1944, the Sd-251/10 with the 37mm is obsolete and theoretically replaced with the /17. The /21 with the long 75mm are issued starting at the end of 1944 to replace the /9.

Berg geit20 Jan 2022 10:49 p.m. PST

Thank you, everyone! These will surely help me out!
@pzivh43 yes indeed 1944-1945, forgot to mention that. Curious to see the AA attached to the platoons rather than the company.

@advocate but yes I figured that it wouldn't be fair too. I could opt to "upgrade" the British infantry to motor infantry or have some of the German equipment nocked out. I am going to get some tanks as well.

@d88mm1940 I know but I want to play the game a bit different, on 1:1. My German squad will be two bases: 2x(deputy) squad leader, MG, MG assist, Riflemen & (co-) driver. The English sections in the rifle group and gun group.

Thresher0121 Jan 2022 4:48 p.m. PST

Thank you for the additional info and links.

I really appreciate them.

They will be very useful.

Thresher0121 Jan 2022 11:02 p.m. PST

Hmmmm, a little more confusion.

In the 4th, Heavy zug from the first link, the SdKfz 251/10 is listed as having a 20mm cannon, and not the 37mm one expected.

Is that a typo?

I've never heard of a 20mm armed 251/10 variant.

Finally, when do the 251/10s get dropped from the units, or discontinued?

I imagine they would serve on until destroyed, but would like to know roughly when they fall out of favor, or become rare, and if the 251/17s replace them, or if they just get standard 251/1s, or other vehicles?

machinehead22 Jan 2022 4:45 a.m. PST

I thought it might be a 251/17 Schwebelafatte but checking I don't think it is. the /10 didn't have a 2cm gun as far as I could find so maybe just a mistake.

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