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"GLOOMHAVEN'S skin coloured body stocking" Topic

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QUATERMASS30 Dec 2021 6:41 a.m. PST

Did you ever play D&D back in the day with a Dungeon master who was more interested in the mathematics rather than entering the player's?
This is my impression of gloomhaven, their are some good mechanic's in this game but their is an equal amount of daft stuff.

First of the game is unplayable unless you go on the internet and find the video that tells you to buy 3
specific plano boxes and how to pack them.

Then go to the video which tells you all the ways that your probably playing it wrong.

My group are all experienced role players and boardgamers we had to play 3 practice games useing the random dungeon deck before we felt ready to start the campaign.

Okay so you have a set of character ability cards these govern your action's in the game some you discard (and get back once you've rested) and some you lose (which you only play once in a game session) each of these cards is devided in 2; a top action wich generally deals with attack and a bottom action (gameing group cracks up) which generally deals with (bowl)movement.
On you're turn you play 2 of these card's 1 of the cards you play a top action and the other a bottom (snigger) action.
Once you've played the cards you ether discard or lose the cards so far so good right?
Well not really my character brute only has 10 cards and as i run out of card's I have to rest their are 2 types of rest but what's important is whenever you rest you lose a card but get the majority of you're cards back effectively the act of resting weakens you(keh?);which might have to take place in the middle of a battle (loose a card)or after crossing a room to open a chest(loose a card) and decently before opening a door???
Think of Homer Simmons dad beating the snot out of some bad guy with his walking stick,oh and I almost forgot you won't be able to use used walking stick again till you rest (lose a card) unless its allegedly a good walking stick when you only be able to use it once a session!
I can guess what you're thinking this is only a 1st level character as time passes you'll get fiter right?
Nope!you will always have 10cards you will always be this unfit as you go up in level you get to swap card's so you will get to hit harder.

On the other hand I do like the Attack modifier cards which are basically the dice.
So why not use dice I hear you ask,well over time you get the oprtunity to stack the deck by adding and subtracting cards based on you're character (nice).

You cannot share gold or equipment and any unclaimed gold at the end of the game session is lost so it the object of the session is kill all enemy's you may find you're self leaving 1 enemy so you can move around picking up the gold but you will probably have to rest(lose a card) and then kill that last monster(daft).
Each gaming session consists of about 3 rooms however a quest might take up more than 1 session and each session you start at full strength! So in the game world terms the act of going down a flight is stairs you will go from totally exhausted to at full strength (deary me) i could go on but I won't.
The reason why we went for this game was cos of all the hype,best game ever and all that,highest rating on board game geek and all that.
do your self a favour and get HEROQUEST instead read the rules once and play a better game.

Mister Tibbles30 Dec 2021 5:37 p.m. PST

Gloomhaven is a Eurogame, with resource management at its core. Like all good Euros, there is always more to do than you can. Tough choices. Very different from Heroquest. It's almost unfair to compare them. I love them both for different reasons.

Start with Jaws of the Lion which teaches the game as you play. It's only $32 USD online. Then proceed to Gloomhaven. Makes it soooo much easier.

Marcus Maximus31 Dec 2021 2:47 a.m. PST

@Quatermass I'm not sure how long or how many scenario's you have played but there are so many things you have incorrect. e.g. you can get more than 10 cards as you level up in experience.

I agree with Mister Tibbles Heroquest and Gloomhaven are different flavours. Gloomhaven beats Heroquest every time on all levels but I do still love Heroquest.

Gloomhaven has been number 1 boardgame for the past 3 to 4 years and that is no mere coincidence.

I recommend you follow Mister Tibbles suggestion and play Jaws of the Lion first.

QUATERMASS31 Dec 2021 5:09 a.m. PST

So I have to now buy jaws of the lion in order to play GLOOMHAVEN? are you guys serious?

We have played 3 practice games we watched the videos on how to play we each have a copy of the rules and so far we have played 2 games of the campaign.

@marcus maximus
Page 45 gloomhaven rulebook
"As characters level up, higher level ability cards will also become available. Even though players have access to more cards,THE MAXIMUM NUMBER OF CARDS THEY CAN TAKE INTO BATTLE (HAND LIMIT) REMAINS THE SAME. Therefore, at the beginning of the scenario, players must SELECT A NUMBER OF CARDS FROM THE CARD POOL EQUAL TO THE CHARACTER'S HAND LIMIT.these cards will form the players hand,and only cards in the players hand may be used during a scenario."
I'm not wrong about the example you site not according to the rulebook anyway,to be honest if it were so that you got more cards in your hand as you leveled up it would be a better game.

let's face it, it's a Kid's game! and their's nothing wrong with that! As an almost 50year old kid I can spend about 10mins telling almost anyone how to play and by the end of the first game they will be an expert! And what's more they will have a blast!

QUATERMASS31 Dec 2021 5:23 a.m. PST

This game maybe top rated game and the highest ever rated game on board game geek
That just means its popular!
Their's lots of very popular crap out their on TV and music in book's and I'm calling this game out!
The emperor has no clothes

RobBrennan02 Jan 2022 4:07 p.m. PST

It took me a while to be convinced but IMO it is a very strong game design. It is not perfect and not everyone will love it of course.

In my experience it is very important to play at a high enough difficulty level, if it is too easy then it is just a grindy optimisation problem but if there is a risk you will lose every every scenario (or even better that feels likely) then the game shines IMO. Hence if you win easily, go up a difficulty level for the next scenario. For this reason the provided scenarios are important as they are (generally) well balanced and interesting reflecting strong playtesting. The random generator cannot compare with that.

It is a bit fiddly and to be honest most of my plays now have been online using the vassal module. I am not sure I could go back to the physical components.

Finally as someone who plays actual RPGs I think the story elements are oversold compared to real RPGs… but that does not detract from it being a strong boardgame design.

QUATERMASS02 Jan 2022 11:07 p.m. PST

Hi rob
I would agree with you in regard that the senerios seem well balanced as we finish a senerio in good time and get home early.
I haven't played vassal but I assume the fiddlyness is removed for you.
For me boardgames are physical/social experience's you say you're self that your not sure if you could go back to the physical game I'd be interested in your opinion after going back.
For me fiddly games are badly made games its not necessary.
As I've said their are to many silly counter intuitive rules for this me to consider this a solid game design or for that matter a good game.
Me and my group will continue to play for now and if I change my mind I'll be posting a retraction on this thread however I doubt that will happen as I know how to play the game.
As a person who has played "real" RPG's too I think it would be unfair to compare although that is an Itch my group wanted to scratch.

RobBrennan03 Jan 2022 8:17 a.m. PST

A couple of things helped with the fiddly issues
* using a bunch of dice to track monster HP
* some people use an app for tracking lots of things (we did not)
* splitting the admin tasks between players
* good packing/storage solution
Part if the issue is that there is just so much stuff in the box and so many scenarios.

In terms of the "silly" rules I think it is important to remember that it is primarily a resource management/euro game dressed up in simulationist clothing. The downside is that some rules do not fully make sense for a simulation but they ensure that everything is well balanced and there are many interesting choices with strong game-play. I have kinda rationalised it as being a boardgame simulating a computer game with lots of jumping characters and stuff.

Nonetheless I have found the game system very robust to my players pushing very hard against what is possible with their characters and yet the scenarios still being difficult enough and varied enough to be interesting. That is a well-executed design in my book. It may not be fun for everyone. It took me a while to get into the system (6 plays?).

QUATERMASS03 Jan 2022 12:11 p.m. PST

*the dice is a good idea we'll have to try that.
*I don't like the idea of an app at all,at all,at all.
*we already split the admin task's and alternate. We do this with all the games we play.
We found a video that gave us a good storage solution and is probably the most important de'fiddlyiser the game is unplayable otherwise IMHO.

I think you may have hit on the nub of my problem with the game.
Its dressed up as a "simulation" and its simply not! And is probably why I'll never get on with it.
For me a good/great game needs to have a synergy between theme and function PANDEMIC (with the "in the lab" expansion) does this perfectly you work with the rules rather than the rules working against you! And for this reason it is IMHO the best boardgame ever; INIS is another game that does this amazingly well it capture's the unique feel of Celtic mythology so well.
Gloomhaven doesn't do that its pretending to be one thing but really its another!
And I guess that's the problem for me,I feel cheated if I'd wanted a new resource management game I'd have got one.

QUATERMASS01 Apr 2022 6:56 p.m. PST

Yup this game still suck's
And yes I know how to play.

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