Lets party with Cossacks  | 21 Dec 2021 1:44 p.m. PST |
I am just starting a project in this period. So far getting information about the Swedish army before it commenced it's campaigns in central Europe is proving tricky. Then again the more I get into this period, even getting reliable information about the TYW let alone the little backwater I am interested in has its challenges. Any thoughts on sources for either army? Many thanks in advance. |
| nnascati | 21 Dec 2021 1:50 p.m. PST |
I don't know if anyone has archived the late Dan Schorr's Northern Wars site, but that would be the place to go. |
| clibinarium | 21 Dec 2021 2:04 p.m. PST |
Looks like this hits the Polish nail on the head at least-
link I think their "Lion of the North" Vol 1 has some stuff on the Swedes before the TYW too. |
| Kadrinazi | 21 Dec 2021 4:46 p.m. PST |
Brzezinski's Ospreys about Swedish army are good base for Swedish army, with some additional information in von Essen's 'Lion of the North' vol 1, which was already mentioned. In 'Despite destruction, misery and privations' I wrote wee subchapter about clothing of Polish army, although it's mostly description of type of clothes worn there, as there were no uniform regulations similiar to Swedish army. Andy at his great blog The Via Regia is showing very well researched Polish army, from the time of battle of Dirschau in 1627, so right within this conflict. Worth to follow:
theviaregia.blogspot.com |
| Lets party with Cossacks | 21 Dec 2021 5:52 p.m. PST |
Thanks for those responses which are very helpful. I have ordered "Lion of the North". The Via Regia blog is exactly the place I would want to get lost in! Will go through it when I get a moment. BTW is the Pieter Snayers book that Andy refers to in his blog appropriate for my period of choice? It seems like a very useful source. |
| BillyNM | 21 Dec 2021 11:34 p.m. PST |
The Snayers books doesn't cover the Swedish-Polish conlflict and the Swedes don't figure until they enter the 'TYW proper'. Snayers was commissioned to paint battle-scenes by many of the participants but his customer base was almost entirely Catholic/Imperialist and therefore they of course are the ones who figure most prominently in the paintings.
Please note most of the paintings depict entire battles and most figures are therfore fairly small with small vignettes in the foreground – but that said the paintings are beautiful contemporary depictions of battles of the period done for discerning customers who were actually there. But as a consequence the book is very expensive.
I do have a copy so if you want to ask any more questions on the book before buying a copy, e.g. a short video clip of it being thumbed through let me know and let me have your email address to send it to. |
| BillyNM | 21 Dec 2021 11:43 p.m. PST |
Just to be clear the earlier Swedish-Polish conflict is of course covered in his famous painting of the Battle of Kirkholm in 1605 (only that but several details shown).
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| Charge The Guns | 22 Dec 2021 2:40 a.m. PST |
Hi, Let's Party! Many thanks to Michal/Kadrinazi for the plug of Via Regia 👍. Just to return the compliment, Michal's book, Despite Destruction, Misery and Privations is THE reference book for the Poles in this period. A must buy 😀. The Lion of the North, and Osprey books already mentioned are also excellent for the Swedes. I like the Snayers book very much and, when I bought it, it was eye-wateringly expensive. It has since been released in paper-back and I've seen it on Amazon for around £35.00 GBP The hard back copy has also come down significantly in price. There are an enormous number of his pictures available via Googling, so you can start to get a feel if you'd will enjoy the book. Many pictures are of the grand scale of whole battles and sieges, but there are also many that detail of camp life, or pictures of the ‘small war', raids behind enemy lines. These provide insight into the frequent ragged and varied appearance of troops and ideas for civilians. Another book to consider is European Weapons & Warfare 1618 – 1648 by Eduard Wagner. You may have to look for a second hand copy, but Warlord Games have occasionally available a re-print produced by Winged Hussar Publishing. It is basically a collection of colour sketches, taken from period art, of everything to do with the military. For example, how was a gun limber hitched to horses, how was a pontoon bridge built, what did officers wear, how were cavalry horses trained. So, I think we have a great start now with books in this period. Looking forward to seeing how you get on with your armies 👍. |
| Marcus Maximus | 22 Dec 2021 3:42 a.m. PST |
In memory of Dan here you go, Northern Wars site via wayback machine: link |
| Korvessa | 22 Dec 2021 10:04 a.m. PST |
You can also search posts here on TMP by Dan S (who is not the same person as Dan Schorr). Lots of good info |
| Travellera | 23 Dec 2021 1:09 a.m. PST |
Regarding the Swedes there were not really any uniforms until the later part of the 17th century. The type of clothing and equipment was similar but the colours were not. This means that you can get away with basically any TYW miniatures. THe only evidence of "uniform" colours on clothing were when certain commanders or units were given cloth in a particular colour but that did not happen in any organized fashion. If you have any particular units in mind there might be some information in regimental records but that would be anecdotal |
| dbf1676 | 24 Dec 2021 11:45 a.m. PST |
There is no doubt that the Swedish infantry had uniforms in 1654. There is still in existence a document listing the colors of coats and trousers for each provincial regiment. There is some evidence that some regiments were in uniform much earlier. |
| Kadrinazi | 25 Dec 2021 2:06 a.m. PST |
There's is in fact enough surviving documents from reign of Gustav II Adolf to confirm that at least some infantry regiment from his army received uniforms. And it's not anecdotal ;) |
| Travellera | 25 Dec 2021 4:36 a.m. PST |
In 1654 there are specifications for the colours of dress. I think this is the 1655 regulation(I think you can google the colours mentioned to the right in the table if you are interested):
However, I have seen no evidence that there were any uniform regulations as early as in the 1626 war in Poland. Some of the "colour" regiments of the 1630s fame were formed by then but if the colour were referring to all dress, part of dress or only flags is unclear. Sorry for any misunderstanding but I mean with anecdotal that there are information that certain units received cloth of a particular colour at a certain time. It is hard to transform this into some sort of uniform appearance of units. I think the diorama in the Swedish Army Museum in Stockholm gives a fair representation of the reality:
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