"Salute 2022 cancelled?" Topic

Email has just appeared on Facebook, it appears to suggest that Salute 2022 in London has been cancelled.

According to the Facebook sources the organisers are not prepared to do 8 months of planning in just 4 months but, I rather suspect, that with footfall at the event being low this year too many traders have probably said 'no' to turning up in the face of the new Covid Omicron outbreak.

There is nothing about this, yet, on the Salute website. I just checked.

Can anyone else confirm all this? Any further news and I will pass it along.

Barry

I'll wait for an official message – but with what looks to be a post-Christmas emergency lockdown looming an April date doesn't seem that far away.

I have seen the official message saying it is cancelled.

I think a combination of short time scales until April and the problems of not knowing what regulations will be like mean it is sensible to postpone it a year – especially as they want to do something special and big to mark the 50th Salute.

Also, quite sensibly, they have ruled out running it in November again as it clashes with too many other shows.

Mike

From my view from the trenches I think they have been wise in their decision.

martin

Sad but probably very wise in the face of such uncertainty!

So, it's look forward to April 2023? or 24? or sometime, just not now and not then if the Swahili variant is discovered.

Just wondering if there has been any surge in infection amoung attendees after say Nashcon (500+ people), Salute, Partizan, Historicon, Southern Front, Barrage, Hurricon, MillenniumCon, Siege of Augusta (a year ago Jan., 2021) or any other gathering that has taken place in the last 12 months?

I hadn't heard of it.

Oddball – any data from those shows would be irrelevant in the changed circumstances. Omicron appears to be at least 3 times as transmittable as Delta so all previous predictions of risk factor would be invalid.

There are certainly events that have been 'spreader events' in the past and some a good deal smaller than a wargames show. I'd expect UK wargamers to be among those who would show a high proportion of fully vaccinated attendees due to the age profile so maybe a lower risk of being a spreader.

I hadn't planned on going to Salute but 3 of us are booked up for York and getting a bit worried. Their planning must be more advanced and they must have funds at risk by now. It will be a very difficult decision when they have no idea what the bunch of loonies running the UK at present will do next.

Lol … suspect no one is keeping track of covid-19 spread from hobby conventions … lol. Glad I didn't have coffee in my mouth this morning when I read the "wondering" on that one.

As opposed to a different bunch of loonies?

Last Sept I spent 5 days in Nashville and went out every night, right up next to 10,000 of my closest friends at bars on Broadway. We hit over different 30 bars and many other locations during the trip.

Was with 3 others, some vax'd, some not. None of us got infected. Funny thing is one unvax'd guy just got the Vid, but he got it in an community that is COMPLETELY in lock down. Masks required everywhere, cards showing you are vax'd (he got a forgery), safe space and all that theatre.

Ironic that in a completely open free society, no problems around thousands of others from all over the world, yet in a small community with full restrictions, POW!, you got it.

Omicron, Swahili, Zebulon variant, always going to be something NEW and IMPROVED coming down the line.

Run and hide, it is coming for you.

So what you're saying is that your un-vaxed friend went out a lot and he caught covid.

Not exactly surprising – the first clue was in "unvaccinated".

It's a shame. My only thought about the cancellation is more about Omicron itself. Has anyone seen any statistics about how sick people are getting from this variant? I am not seeing any numbers that tell me this variant is more deadly. More infectious maybe, but if it is not as dangerous as the Delta, we need to get back to more of a normal life. Also, if it is more infectious but less severe in symptoms, does that give us an opportunity for herd immunity without serious loss of life comparatively speaking? I am really missing the cons and hope that we find normal again soon.

Omicron appears to be at least 3 times as transmittable as Delta

And according to the latest information, nowhere near as deadly.

rampantlion,
Stop asking sensible questions. Lock yourself down and obey. Stop debating that you can still think and decide for yourself. ; )

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And all for something which is apparently no worse than a bad cold …

So what you're saying is that your un-vaxed friend went out a lot and he caught covid. Not exactly surprising – the first clue was in "unvaccinated".

Which is no different than someone who is "vaccinated".

So what you're saying is that your un-vaxed friend went out a lot and he caught covid. Not exactly surprising – the first clue was in "unvaccinated".
Which is no different than someone who is "vaccinated".

Actually it's quite a bit different. There's a surprising amount of ignorance about this. The Covid 19 vaccine makes it less likely that you'll catch it. Like all vaccines it doesn't eliminate the chance (which is where a lot of the tinfoil hat people get confused about). It's an intramuscular injection, which actually isn't optimal in preventing infection, although again, it does a good job.

However the current vaccines are highly efficient and effective in preventing hospitalization and death. So the person who wasn't vaccinated was more likely to catch it, much more likely to be hospitalized and much, much more likely to die from it that someone who is vaccinated.

Preliminary, and as far as I know not yet peer reviewed data suggests omicron is far more transmissible and infectious, but probably not as deadly. However, even if a smaller percentage of people infected need hospitalization, since the models suggest that a lot more people in absolute numbers will be infected, then that will translate to a possible overload in ICU beds.

And all for something which is apparently no worse than a bad cold …

800,000+ Americans dead from January 21, 2020 until now.

In WW2, the US lost 420,000 in the nearly four years.

cdc.gov
CDC is the best data source.

If you are unvaccinated you are 3.5 times more likely to catch Covid and pass it on.

If you are unvaccinated you are 29 times more likely to be hospitalized.

If you are unvaccinated you are 11 times more likely to die.

I was fully vaccinated and had the booster when I caught Covid. I was totally asymptomatic and had I not been tested for a trip to Europe, never would have known anything was wrong. Given I am almost 70 and have reduced lung function, vaccines did exactly what they are supposed to do. Given that one in one hundred Americans over the age of 65 are already dead of Covid, had I been unvaccinated and died, the true cause of death would have been stupidity.

I thought this thread was about the cancellation of Salute – a British show. Why does what happens at a US show have any relevance whatsoever ? The rules and behaviours are too different to make any useful comparison.

You'd get howls of laughter from epidemiologists if you talk about 'herd immunity' – that concept is not taken seriously in the context in which it is being used for Covid.

GildasFacit,

The first posts were about how it is a good idea to cancel Salute because of the "newest" and "latest" version of the Vid. That's how.

Having run conventions (not the same size 300-400 people), I am more in agreement that the organizers could not do 8 months worth of prep work in 4 months before the show. Putting on a convention is a ton of work.

As for losses:

800,000 dead I believe will be only the tip of the iceberg.

If you take the 1% death rate and apply it to 330 million Americans, totals should come in at 3.3 million dead.

Only at roughly 25% death rate now, but we do have a very good medical system, so maybe cut that in half?

Vid is a deadly disease, no doubt about that. I have said in the past, I have lost family members to it.

Is it so deadly, 1% or so, that the entire world society is shut down and hide?

I am fully vax'd, I believe in modern medicine. That's my choice.

I don't think you can say to a citizen (not a subject, different rules) the government orders you to get an injection. Are these people putting themselves in danger, sure. It is their choice.

All the vax'd people I know that have caught the Vid (30+ at this point), only 2 were hospitalized. Both were unvax'd.

I also know several people who were unvax'd, caught it and said they had a sore throat for 3 or 4 days and are fine. Some of the ages were 65, 84 and 90.

I believe that EVERYONE will be exposed to this disease before it runs its course. Some will die from it regardless of vax'd or unvax'd (unvax'd more likely), but the vast majority will survive.

Do we shut down the world for years due to this?

The entire society isn't shut down and hiding. Instead they are running around passing covid off to their family, friends, neighbors, colleagues, customers, etc., and sometimes they don't even know it. The irony there is … if they had half a sense of self and cared more about others than they do, they'd act with healthier choices, but of course they aren't. So your dog is whining and whistling up the wrong tree. ; )

And all for something which is apparently no worse than a bad cold …

800,000+ Americans dead from January 21, 2020 until now.

In WW2, the US lost 420,000 in the nearly four years.

I was referring to the Omicron variant specifically, not COVID in general

Cheer up, there could be a lot less complainers a year from now ;)

And the 800,000 number is bloated. The CDC themselves stated that if anyone died with covid then they were being listed as having died because of covid. (the following is anecdotal: )
Like the guy who ran his motorcycle into a tree at 80+ mph, cause of death listed as "covid".

There's been nothing but lies and misinformation about this whole pandemic that even the "trusted sources" can't be trusted.

Look at the excess deaths for the last two years and then explain (without Covid) why there is such a spike in annual deaths, and when excess deaths are looked at next to covid infection data there is a clear correlation (covid rate goes up – excess deaths go up, covid rate drops excess deaths drop).

There is no evidence – yet – that Omicron is "a bad cold", the UK has already had its first Omicron deaths, that sure is a bad cold. Data from South Africa only really applies if one also lives in a nation with an average age of 28. In the UK it is 40.5 and in the USA it is 38.1. So outcomes are likely to be quite different. Since one thing we do know is the infection rate is 3-5 times more than the Delta variant there's maybe a good reason to apply a little caution until some solid data comes in. I understand you'll completely disagree with all of that.

"45" strikes again – bang

Cheer up, there could be a lot less complainers a year from now ;)

I was getting worried that this thread would go without your usual ghoulish commentary. You're a real prince.

I understand you'll completely disagree with all of that.

But I don't disagree with all of it.
Some of those excess deaths can be attributed to depression/suicide, from people being told that their jobs are "non-essential", sudden lack of purpose (ie. meaningful work), financial stress (from not being able to work) and from being forced into isolation. Others of those deaths can be attributed to the increase in crime rates.

Outcomes in different countries should be different due to different responses, differing quality of medical services and different attitudes towards treatments.

There is always reason for caution when dealing with highly contagious viruses. The question is what solid data are we going to get without the data being used to force a political outcome.

There is no evidence – yet – that Omicron is "a bad cold", the UK has already had its first Omicron deaths, that sure is a bad cold.

As of yesterday's data (16th) there were 16 cases of Omicron in UK hospitals and ONE (yes only one) death. And even that one nobody seems to be able to say who it was or whether they had any co-morbidities.

Compare that to the 10,740 confirmed Omicron cases and the 29.037 SGTF cases and you can see there is a vast difference between Omicron and its predecessor Delta.

PDF link

So outcomes are likely to be quite different.

Of course they are which is convenient for every aspiring petty dictator.

I was referring to the Omicron variant specifically, not COVID in general

As was I

"45" strikes again – bang

Yes, "46" has been a smashing success.

@ Cardinal Ximenez

Yup

My ghoulish comment was just that.

But I wish to apologize to all of our cousins across the pond for all the dingbats here in the states that can't keep their opinions to themselves. This is your post about your country, and it is a hobby period !!!

@Oddball
@Cardinal Ximenez

The amount of mental gymnastic moves attempted to explain away 800,000 deaths is astounding. It shows the complete need to prove a point that doesn't really exist except in one's own mind. Round and round the rodents go, when they stop, nobody knows.

And it sure doesn't answer the original poster's questions in any shape, form, nor manner.

Speaking of 40s … YouTube link

Think its time to do some clipping in this thread, and maybe shredding is a better word.

And the "1" was a 73 year old bloke (already on borrowed time) who believed it was all a "Big Pharma" plot so was unvaccinated. Bit, hey, destroy an economy and millions of livelihoods on the basis of it.

Absent any reputable study proving either a high or low, the 800,000+ is the universally accepted number within the medical community.

A fairly substantial number of reasonably cogent articles arguing that the number is substantially undercounted have been produced such as -
link
link

I have not seen any studies of genuine (non-anecdotal) provenance detailing an overcount and would welcome a link.

Absent a non-anecdotal evidence based number, the 800,000+ is the only valid benchmark.

Bah Bah Bah
US COVID deaths 2020 – 385,000
US COVID deaths 2021 – 386,000 and counting
Yes, it's going swimmingly and let's blame it on the unvaccinated. Let's also mandate a vaccine that prevents neither acquisition nor transmission. Sounds good to me.

And before anyone makes yet another incorrect assumption, I'm triple vaxxed. I also don't have a FB account and nor will I ever have one.

Hey folks … in case you're unaware, this thread is about Salute being canceled, not covid dead statistics in the US.

Thank you! : )

The following appeared on the South London Warlords FB page:

Important News about Salute 50

After due consideration the South London Warlords Committee has, with great regret, concluded that we will not run a Salute in April 2022. Therefore the next Salute – ‘Salute 50' – will be in April 2023.

We have not taken this decision lightly, but we trust you will understand the reasons why we have. Here's to a great new year ahead for the club and a cracking Salute 50 in April 2023.

We have been in direct contact with all those – potential traders and games – affected by this decision.

Regards

Bernie

Chairman

I just got my third booster shot. So far I have not grown two heads or connected to the 5G network. I'm ready for Salute 2023.

Ding bat haven't heard that one in a long time.

I too am looking forward to Salute 2023 – will be great to buy some new stuff ('cos I have soooooo little )

I was looking forward to attending Salute but can understand why they have postponed, l guess a good number of shows here in the UK will go the same way, l will play my part in supporting the UK wargames industry by ordering lots of stuff by mail order in the meantime.

Greenknight4:

I base my opinions about the current "plague" upon my personal experiences over the last 22 months.

I have traveled all over the East Coast repeatedly, out to Tennessee several times, west into Ohio and Kentucky. Flown on many planes and been out in crowds, some huge. 1 year without any vax (there wasn't any) and now with. I keep testing negative of anti-bodies. Never had it.

I do know many people who have contracted the disease, one has died, all others recovered, some were vax'd, some were not.

I am actually planning on attending Salute, looks like '23 now, kinda like part of my wargaming Hajj. Got a couch to sleep on and everything.

Let me mull that over :)

Here we go again two countries divided by one pandemic.
I think it's more about the lead time and logistics of putting on an event in a city that certain UK media are calling Omicron Central (sounds like something out of Marvel universe).

As someone who has put on games at Salute it is one of the few wargaming convention venues in the UK where you are in the premier league ( Major league) playing with the big boys, who demand certain rules and regulations.
I for one have no plans to put on any games at conventions in the near future and then should I be handing out masks and surgical gloves to participants in my game to keep my figures covid secure???

To everyone on both sides of the pond and elsewhere,Happy Holidays , STAY SAFE and Game to Live / Live to Game.
Regards
Guy T

And all for something which is apparently no worse than a bad cold …

Britain, population 70 million more or less, 147,000 extra, that's EXTRA, deaths due directly to covid. That's somewhat more than a bad cold.

I caught covid in November (after being vaccinated twice) and I was VERY ill. I dread to think how ill I would have been without the vaccine. Now I've been vaccinated three times (with both common types) and a more resistant strain appears.

Bad cold? Get a grip and spare a thought for 5.4 million who have died already, and the people who are yet to die.

First one that decided to bring politics into the thread was that one with a question about infection surges from conventions in the U.S. And now claims it was conversing about a convention in a foreign country. Then the next post the question is posed, "Do we shut down the world for years due to this?" If the comments had been about Salute and other conventions in England, and the questions hadn't been so political, maybe the convenience being taken would have been believable, although at a minimum most of us probably haven't been fooled.

let me put my censored comment another way with Boris -do as I say not as I do in charge- and the amount of political u-turns going on in the UK about covid restrictions going on it leads to an enormous amount of uncertainty especially for a major venue in the capital city.

These are the times we live in when posts about wargame conventions being cancelled are fall foul of the "overlord's sensibilities"
Cabin fever is live and well on … !

Bad cold? Get a grip and spare a thought for 5.4 million who have died already, and the people who are yet to die.

READ WHAT I WROTE. I was referring specifically to the Omicron variant.