"Cold Wars 2022 Canceled" Topic

I received an email from John Hollier today:

With much regret, the Board of HMGS has canceled Cold Wars 2022 (CW22), which was scheduled for April 1-3 in Ocean City, MD.

While this has looked like the probable outcome for a few weeks, we needed to finish negotiations with the facility and the hotel chains before making an official announcement.

In our analysis, we estimated that we would lose 50% to 60% of our exhibitor booths due to the location and the fact that the convention was scheduled for the weekend following Adepticon.

The likely significant loss of "day trippers", coupled with a reduced weekend attendance, also contributed to the negative financial picture.

We have also canceled our agreements for 2023 and 2024 with the facility.

We are now looking for a new facility for a spring show and hope to have a decision by the end of 1Q 2022.
John Hollier
President, HMGS Inc.

It's a shame, but putting on my Monday Morning Quarterback hat, most of those analysis points seem like things that should have been realized by the board BEFORE ever committing to the Ocean City location in the first place.

Hope they find a better location for the Spring convention.

In defense of the Board, they likely heard from many people that they WOULD come to Ocean City, and only after it the venue was locked in did the voices against it start up. I have been in dozens and dozens of situations where the naysayers were quiet until AFTER a decision was made. I think casting the Board as idiots who couldn't see the sun rising tomorrow is a bit harsh. (Not that you were doing that, Sultan, but some posts on other threads have been far too critical with little basis offered.)

That being said, hopefully this will finally bury this whole concept of making HMGS conventions into "destination" events for families and opportunities to grow the hobby,. This has been a theme for years and it hasn't resulted in anything other than angering the core of the hobby. Just organize a convention for the maximum enjoyment and convenience of the most people who are likely to actually attend.

I just deleted a bunch of sarcasm and cynicism. Twice, now. It goes against the grain, but I'd like to ask everyone to go easy on the leadership over this one. The customary looting of the dead and mutilation of the corpses serves no purpose now, and Mr. Hollier's statement seems to show that the current board knows the things to look for in a venue for 2023.

Given that we don't pay them, we ask the people we elect to put up with a lot of abuse.

I'm a little curious who set their date first, Cold Wars or Adepticon? I heard a lot of chatter at Historicon that, while many dealers weren't thrilled about OC, they were on board until the proximity to Adepticon came to light.

Sad to see this but you are correct, everyone makes mistakes so no need to skewer the BOD. I did speak with two members back at our last CW in 2019 and advised 4 of us from Western NY wouldnt go the extra distance and that I heard from some of our friends in Ontario that this killed it for them too. We can never make H-Con in July due to work but always made CW and FI. With only one con in distance we all dropped membership. If they come back in distance, we will all likely rejoin. I think the BOD does really try so lets just go forward.

I mentioned to a number of dealers that I didn't think the location was a good place to go. I am not putting any blame on the leadership for chosing it. Maybe the people who said that they would attend should go on the record. Possibly on the HMGS website have a poll to see if a location is acceptable and by voting it is then cast in stone. Just a thought and I am not saying we should definitely chose this route.

Good decision, good analysis behind it. Let's go all out supporting Hcon in July. Make Historicon Great Again! LoL

An interview with the HMGS president, recorded at HCON, about future convention plans just posted today. If you just want to hear about Cold Wars and the challenges that went into the decision, jump to the 9:30 mark in the interview and there's a very reasoned discussion about what went into this debate for the board. If you listen to the full interview I think there are some exciting ideas here for expanding the convention slate with smaller, regional shows to support the hobby over a wider geographic footprint along the East Coast.

YouTube link

Adepticon is a far large convention and has always been on the last weekends of March. So it a no brainer for the Dealers.

"If you listen to the full interview I think there are some exciting ideas here for expanding the convention slate with smaller, regional shows to support the hobby over a wider geographic footprint along the East Coast."

This is the kind of out of the box thinking that has been needed for a while. So great to hear such things are even being considered. Kudos to this BoD!

and only after it the venue was locked in did the voices against it start up

To be fair, many of us didn't even know it was in consideration till we got a fridge magnet in a bag.

Can anyone explain why the Lancaster Host is no longer an option? We suffered for years at that location and now that it's renovated we move on. And I am guessing that HMGS lost more money on their deposit for the Ocean City Location like they did in Baltimore?

Apparently they priced us out

Apparently they priced us out

That is what I remember. Post renovation the new owners significantly raised the price to where the Lancaster Marriott in downtown became the more affordable option.

On to Fredericksburg!!!!!!

@Kalgaloth

A ps on the original email from HMGS indicated that they would catch up with the membership re the cost of canceling. To be sure, there was a cost.

It's just my gut, but I'd venture to guess that our OC cancel cost would pale in comparison to the pound of flesh we parted with over Baltimore.

I imagine all HMGS venue searches have the Lancaster Wyndham/Host as the default starting point. Inasmuch as it is no longer the hospitali'hooptie it once was, its probably booked more often than it used to be,…and yes, it's certainly costlier now.

Considering we seem to be wandering in the wilderness seeking a suitable venue, maybe we should try looking near The Wilderness.

No, wait. That's further south than Fredericksburg.

Nevermind.

Just to be clear, I'm not bashing the board. They're good people who volunteer to do a job that's not often as appreciated as it should be.

That said, with all their talk of "outreach", why not reach out to the membership and Dealers/Vendors to take a VOTE on any new proposed locations for future conventions? They could do it right on the HMGS East website. That would at least give the board an idea of how membership & dealers feel before the board makes any final decisions. All this anecdotal "well, I asked such & such and he said…" isn't the same thing as having a formalized poll.

I get it that there's never going to be 100% agreement on any suggestion/proposal. But if 50-60% of the vendors don't want to attend a convention, don't you think the board could have been alerted to that ahead of time if they had reached out to them formally? Maybe they did -- I don't run in those circles. But I have a really hard time believing that the dealers all changed their minds at the last moment.

kalgaloth, there was a long discussion at the last Cold Wars. Evidently the new management upped the price to HMGS, upped the room charges and flatly denied our right to the tables we'd paid for.
They may be feeling more reasonable now. I've not heard anything suggesting that the Host is off limits, and I hope HMGS is looking at it.

The e-mail from the President said there would be a later one about the financial hit. Paying money NOT to have a convention hurts, but a convention no one attended could have been even more expensive. Evidently by the time we faced up to the problem, those were the options.

This thread is far too reasonable and considered for this to be the typical Cold Wars/Historicon/Fall-In thread on TMP. Who are you people and what have you done with the usual suspects?

I kid, I kid.

Adepticon being next door to Chicago, do you need to bring your own body armor or is it provided when you leave the location for a fee?

Also, looks like my Cold Wars Ocean City 2021 magnets just went up in value.

I second 6mm ACW's recommendation to view the Little Wars TV episode with HMGS President and others. Great info on what the leadership is thinking about.

YouTube link

I'm not going to unload on the board members, because that accomplishes nothing. But honestly (and a couple people said this already), the fact is that not enough people want to go far from where we are. Not enough people want to put in a lot more effort. It doesn't matter if you want to, if you're willing to make the effort…not enough of the attendees will do it. And you're not going to convince them.

Just find a spot in PA (maybe even one of the two other ones already used) and call it a day. We had the debacle of several years ago, and more recently, the Covid problems. I don't blame anyone for the Covid hassles, of course (not the case for the previous problems), but can we just all realize that the conventions are what they are. They're not going to grow in response to changes, and most likely they will continue to decline if you insist on trying to ram something else down gamers' throats.

I say this as someone who has pretty much gone anywhere, and probably would still. But not enough people will go. So find a spot for Cold Wars, in the vicinity of the other shows, and leave it at that. If we can settle everything into place, and cut all the crap and the moving around, maybe we can start to slowly even grow again.

@Shotgun

It is a fairly short jaunt from O'Hare tho.

Just sayin'.

Shotgun Willie said:

"I just spent 5 minutes on the Adepticon website trying to find out where it was located.
Using my superior skills, I finally found out that it was in Illinois.
I guess I won't be driving there either."

Five minutes isn't that long, and it's odd that you couldn't find it.
I scrolled down to the middle of the first/home page (right under the "About Adepticon" banner, and there it was: (took me a whole 30 seconds)….

Renaissance Schaumburg
Convention Center Hotel
1551 N. Thoreau Dr.
Schaumburg, IL 60173 USA
847.303.4100

Oddball:

Body armor is recommended but it would also be helpful for you to carry a piece of chalk in your shirt pocket in case it fails.

I agree with Civil, but for HMGS's history, "trying to find a spot", seems to be a constant curse. Host, and all of it's problems, then the B'more fiasco, then Host (who agreed to let Historicon share the weekend with a cat show), then Fredricksburg, (in which the NE day trippers absolutely refused to support as they were now required to do what everyone else did – travel and get a room), and then VF which worked for 1-2 years until the space was taken out to put in a casino, and then the other space, that was locked in, until it was sold to be a data center. So while I agree with it, it seems that this is more difficult than it sounds….

Plus les choses changent, plus elles restent les même

D'accord.

Wasn't Hershey being talked about at one point?

Yes, it was. If memory serves, we were never able to make the dates work.

Remind me of the B'more fiasco again Murph.

I would like to hear about the Host again.
Of course the naysayers on the Host will have a goal again.

Grimm

Of course the naysayers on the Host will have a goal again.

The Host is a dump! Killer Mold! Terrible toilets! Cold Showers! Hall Pig!

Those cries have become "The Host is too nice and expensive now!"

Its been amazing to watch, for sure.

The last time I went to Adepticon, 2-3 years ago, it seemed to be full of board games, role playing and fantasy/sci fi. I do not remember seeing any major HMGS dealers. There were only a few historical miniatures games.

I couple years earlier I ran the first DBA tournament and a scenario game. There was a Saga tournament and one for Bolt Action. Lots of cool dealers with stuff not seen at HMGS conventions -- fantasy and sci fi types. Has this event changed to the extent that our usual historical miniature dealers now attend, to maybe catch some converts to our life?

It was in a great facility. Lots of space and light.

Did we wear out our welcome at Gettysburg at the Eisenhower?

TSD101, yeah, but they were there, every con, counting the holes in the wall and the rips in the rugs. Oh well. Its just money.

Well, Adepticon seems like it will require proof of vaccination. That might be tolerable if you don't need masks. However the pandemic is an uncertain future and rooms seem to have one non refundable night. Definitely a last minute thing for me.

Cold Wars was probably going to be mask crazy like Historicon so that's a hard pass.

We just need to live (or die) with the endemic and move on; sheesh!

"Did we wear out our welcome at Gettysburg at the Eisenhower?"

I was there this past summer. There is a relatively new owner who is putting significant upgrades into the hotels. The All Star Complex, where some games and the vendors set up, was unchanged – which means – it was still pretty bad. The bathrooms alone were the stuff prison riots are made of.

Also, the hotels had virtually no staff – two maids for the entire complex. This was a problem throughout the Gettysburg area this past summer, to the point even the McDonalds could not open it's doors to indoor dining due to staff shortages.

Point being – the Ike is a work in progress and may be a good go to in a year or two for a larger convention. IIRC, one of the old Hcon crews found that the Ike had virtually the same floor space as the old Host. So, my advice, keep it on the radar, but stand by for all the upgrade and return to full staffing.

The so called "naysayers" were out long before Ocean City was locked in. I'll quote a board member when we asked why we can't do Lancaster convention center who gave them the best deal for Cold Wars "we (the BOD) don't want to put all our eggs in one basket again" so here we are again with poor decisions made by the BOD and HMGS has to pay its way out of this mess again. Shouldn't board members be held accountable for their actions! There should be resignations lined up with a new vote for BODs!

Bobgnar, in that video from the current HMGS President linked above, he says Adepticon is substantially increasing historical miniatures gaming with dealers to match.

I'll admit the thought lingers that it's more palatable to say "Ocean City Cold Wars is cancelled due to something new and unexpected" than to say "Ocean City Cold Wars is cancelled because it was a bad idea in the first place." But sometimes it's enough that people know a truth without insisting them say it. The cancellation of future Cold Wars at that site speaks volumes.

Army strong, couldn't we just dock the pay of Board members whose decisions we dislike? And when did you last run for one of those positions?

I am not sure where the partnership currently stands, but a few years ago HMGS-Midwest sat down with Adepticon organizers and agreed to work together more. I know they run events at Adepticon, and I THINK one year a few years ago they held the Little Wars convention within Adepticon's umbrella. This sort of idea is echoed in the video linked above. This is where the increased historical activity at Adepticon is coming from—Midwestern/Chicago historical gamers putting their boots on and running events at a bigger convention.

We will do far more to grow the hobby if we go to where other miniature gamers (and other gamers) already are and show them our games, rather than making grandiose plans for them to come to one of our much smaller, niche conventions.

In 2017, the HMGS-Midwest BOD decided to create the "Ambassador Program". This entailed supporting other conventions (Adepticon, Garycon, Nexus, etc.) with a slate of GM's running high end games. We would be grouped together with our banners and an information table. This was to generate interest in our events, sign-ups for our newsletter, and distribute membership information. (We do the same with modeling shows and reenactments)

Coupled with a reciprocal arrangement, this has resulted in a successful cross-over of gamers into the hobbies. While there was an idea exchange in merging Little Wars with Adepticon a few years ago, it was decided to remain independant and continue the Ambassador Program.

In the Little Wars HCon video, Hollier floated the idea of a JV ACW con in Gettysburg. I have to imagine that'd involve the Eisenhower.

I like the idea of a bigger group like HMGS-East putting on focused cons like ACW at Gettysburg, or an AmRev one at Valley Forge, or similar. Mayb only do one or two a year as an extra thing.

I like this much better than these crazy ideas to grow Historicon to 5-10k, because it will never happen. A better goal would be to increase the number of historical games at other, bigger cons.

Time to rethink the Chase Center in Wilmington DE as a venue. I understand it was rejected for the lack of hotel space, but now there are 3 hotels in or next to the convention center. Right off I-95 and I-495 so easy access – 2 hours to VA, 2 hours to NY, and 1 hour to Baltimore or Phila. Tax free shopping for vendor hall purchases.

Too bad about CW but I will work on my projects for Historicon and look forward to going back to the Lancaster convention center.

More cons, tho smaller, will require some determined coordination with the existing community'cons to avoid scheduling beefs. When Fall In was added it crossed up the Novag guys.

Additionally, the more cons model will leave the larger vendors in a bit of a bind.

TSD 101 said:

"The Host is a dump! Killer Mold!"

If you have never been medically afflicted due to mold issues and "sick buildings", and have no idea what this does to a person, then you should count yourself lucky. Tossing that in as an "excuse", is bs and you know it.
And yes, the hotel is a dump. It's been duly noted, logged, and recorded on Yelp, Foursquare, and numerous other travel sites on the web.

Really it's not so much of a dump anymore. I've been in there since the renovation was completed.

Agreed I've been in the Host post reno and its a huge improvement.