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"WSS and SYW infantry and cavalry standards, do you go big?" Topic


17 Posts

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Comments or corrections?

Gallocelt04 Dec 2021 3:47 p.m. PST

I have been looking at commercial flags for the 15mm WSS and I noticed that many of the French infantry standards are about 15mm square. Some figure makers including Khurasan and Blue Moon seem to be making taller figures, 18mm, so I was wondering if anyone could recommend sizes for 15mm / 18mm scale infantry and cavalry standards. Were British WSS standards the same size as the French? What about Dutch, Prussians, Austrians, Spanish, etc. etc.? Did most European armies use similar sized standards for their infantry? What about the cavalry? Did flag sizes stay about the same for the SYW? I plan to print or paint all my WSS flags.


Cheers!

Gallo

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP04 Dec 2021 3:56 p.m. PST

Hmm, personally I think go as big as looks good. Strict historical sizes often either are hard to fit on the standard bearer figure or look 'wrong'.

Fat Wally05 Dec 2021 12:55 a.m. PST

Totally agree with above.

For what it's worth I use 16mm or 17mm, along the pole, for my infantry and 11mm or 12mm for mounted units.

Gallocelt05 Dec 2021 7:07 a.m. PST

Hello Herkybird and Fat Wally,

Thank you both for the very useful information! I was hoping to go a bit larger than 15 x 15mm for my infantry flags. My 15mm Roundway figures have the flags cast-on so I won't be changing their size. Most typically my ensign figures do not have their flags cast-on. For those, I will be designing and printing up paper flags. I am used to working in graphic design programs so making the flags should be pretty straight forward.


Cheers!

Gallo

Badgerlock05 Dec 2021 7:24 a.m. PST

Did most European armies use similar sized standards for their infantry?

The size of infantry flags for various armies in the SYW era was similar but not identical:

Austria – 178cm wide x 127cm high
France – 162 x 162cm (with some exceptions)
Great Britain – 198 x 188cm
Prussia – 140 x 140cm (Grenadier Garde – 150 x 150cm)

My preference is for flags to be just a little larger than the "correct" size for the scale of the miniature. I think I worked out that most of my miniatures are approx. 1:59 scale so I have scaled the flags at 1:55 – which, happily, makes a Prussian infantry flag exactly 1 inch square.

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP05 Dec 2021 8:05 a.m. PST

No, only a bit larger tham historical. It goes with the rest, no fantasy game, just like if you did not like tricorns and gave them unicorns instead. Part of the thing.
I was explained once by a former colonel, head of the cavalry rgt of the republican guard, objecting against huge cavalry flags: you want the thing to be above your head, small enough not to fall down on your face, especially if there was a branch on the way, imagine a guy with a sabre.
I took branches while horse riding, understood.

Gallocelt05 Dec 2021 10:27 a.m. PST

Interesting the various countries having standard sizes at the time of the SYW. That leaves me wondering if sizes were standard for the WSS. I like the idea of using 16mm or 17mm flags for my 15mm/ 18mm WSS figures. Scale creep, I suppose.


Cheers!

Gallo

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP05 Dec 2021 11:06 a.m. PST

Pursuant to Herkybird I also go big – looks better IMHO

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP05 Dec 2021 2:55 p.m. PST

It goes with the rest, no fantasy game, just like if you did not like tricorns and gave them UNICORNS instead. Part of the thing.

Thank you JCFROG – I have an amusing picture in my mind!

picture

- I assume you mean Bicornes?

Gallocelt05 Dec 2021 3:15 p.m. PST

So do the unicorns wear bicornes or tricornes?


Cheers!

Gallo

Gallocelt06 Dec 2021 8:56 p.m. PST

I made a visit to Warflag.com and discovered I might not have to design as many flags as I thought. I will however, have to remove the Roundway cast-on flags from the British ensign figures, as the ones provided would be too small. According to the information at Warflag, British infantry standards were about 6 feet square. The website also has the dimensions of the flags of other nations for the WSS period.


Cheers!

Gallo

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP07 Dec 2021 3:04 a.m. PST

Bicorne still too historical. Unicorns heads , a follow up of a sort of Roman velite hat😅.
That said I recently did some XVIIth cty cavalry flags, probably historical, but confusingly fuzzy design and small enough not to be as pleasant as could be. At least there we know not so much and no regulations or so. Might increase.
In that case can I ask figures makers to have higher poles? Ok often have to rlace but what a chore.

Gallocelt07 Dec 2021 10:16 a.m. PST

Jcfrog, I'm feeling your pain right now as I have to remove the cast-on flags from my Roundray British figures. I will be substituting steel wire for the poles. The flags I've removed are 13.5mm tall. According to Michael Barthorp, author of "Marlborough's Army 1702 – 11", the standards of the English Foot Guards were "6 ft. 11 in. flying and 6 ft. 5 in. in hoist." That is huge. In my scale that is more like 18mm tall. So now I'm thinking, "Why go big? Historically, they're already big!"


Cheers!

Gallo

Stoppage08 Dec 2021 2:24 a.m. PST

Use next size up – use 25/28mm for 15/18mm

This allows more detail/colour to be displayed – especially if draped.

DHautpol08 Dec 2021 7:59 a.m. PST

I personally like standards that are a bit bigger than they actually were; that way they catch the eye.

I make my Infantry standards about 20-30% than true life. My cavalry standards are much the same, big enough to distinguish but not so large as to have had the bearer out of his saddle.

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP08 Dec 2021 11:30 a.m. PST

Well you can often find their true size. Infantry 17-18 th cty are mostly bigger than the guy. I found some real 30yw something like 3m high. No need to cheat.
True size cav. often a bit miserable, esp. If the pole is big.

Gallocelt09 Dec 2021 8:17 p.m. PST

My plan now is to go with more or less historical size for infantry. If I "cheat" it will be subtle and probably for the cavalry standards.


Cheers!

Gallo

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