"The Rifle Setup Force Recon Marines Carry into.." Topic

… THE FIGHT

"The Force Recon rifle appears to be what most would call a Block 1.5 rifle. SOPMOD, or Special Operations Peculiar Modification kits, comes in Blocks; Block 1 and Block 2, to be specific. When they pull these out of their AR 15 gun cases it's These blocks break down the various accessories Special Operations forces can utilize, and include lights, optics, lasers, and more.

So what exactly is a Block 1.5 rifle? Well, it's a Block 1 rifle using Block 2 accessories. Block 2 rifles are M4A1s with different rails, often different sights, and stocks. Block 1 rifles have the famous fixed front sight base, commonly use Knight's RAS rails, and the standard M4 stock…"
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Armand

The heavy use of carbines by US forces bothers me. We seem to be giving up the ability for long range shooting by the majority of troops. This seems like a mistake to me.

Of course it's been thirty years since I was on a battlefield, and I was in the artillery, so what do I know?

I read the entire article. Personally, the system sounds too complicated for the Marine's to use. <grin>

I used to help coach the Juniors AR-15 team in Richmond, CA (has multiple National Championships). We had a one week training program at the 1000 yard range in Coalinga and we put them through some pretty intensive long range shooting instruction up to 600 yards. It included spotting vapor trails just like a sniper team and estimating range and wind effects. It was better and more intensive than I had in the Marines but that was just over 50 years ago.

One of our shooters joined the Marines and was issued a standard M4 Carbine with an ACOG scope. He was a comms guy, not a sniper. He claims to have picked off a bad guy walking perpendicular to him at 750 yards with one shot impacting his left armpit and exiting out his right side. He knows it was about 750 yards because that the range setting on his ACOG he used (no laser RF).

He admits it was somewhat of a lucky shot and would be hard to duplicate but he did have the basic training to do it and he was not under fire at the time. I believe him. He was attached to Force Recon units and he said that many of them had customized equipment like nickel plated bolts and some non-standard issues.

An M4 Carbine has the potential for a 1.5 mil accuracy which translates to about a 10 inch group at 600 yards with iron sights. A customized one might be about 1.0 mil. I've seen customized and accurized ones with custom reloads hold a consistent 6 inch group at 600 yards iron sights from the slung prone position, not bench rested. I don't think the 5.56 is good much beyond that. If you have a good scope and a laser range finder under good conditions you should have about a 90% chance for a first round hit at 600 yards. For targets beyond that you'd want a dedicated sniper with something bigger than a 5.56.

While a longer barrel normally translates to better accuracy it's not always the case. A longer barrel needs to be thicker and heavier to eliminate barrel whip and muzzle jump from shock and vibration of the shot. A shorter barrel is stiffer and does not need to be thicker as it is not effected as much. You can "tune" a short barrel to give better accuracy too by eliminating the muzzle jump which throws off the accuracy. There are many other ways to improve accuracy too recon units would have available to them.

The article said, "The Razor makes the Force Recon rifle a capable choice at all ranges. " so that includes a room-to-room engagement where you need a shorter barrel, that's a trade-off they need to make. The trigger on the M4 with the 3 round burst was terrible and has been replaced improving accuracy. It appears the new weapon is still using the gas impingement system rather than a piston. However, units can upgrade to that too.

That's my opinion from memory anyhow.

Wolfhag

Thanks!

Armand

RUSSIA'S ANSWER TO THE M4: BREAKING DOWN THE NEW AK-12

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Armand

Interesting thoughts Wolfhag. Thanks.

Another reason for carbines is that many weapons are being upgraded with suppressors that can add another 10-15 inches to the barrel length.

The AK-12 is new and will have normal teething problems for the next few years just like any new weapon system.

Most of the infantry engagements in Ukraine are in the woods or urban environment. I don't think shorter barrels will have a disadvantage.

Wolfhag