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"Fall of Berlin? No..." Topic


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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian29 Nov 2021 2:11 p.m. PST

You were asked – TMP link

Have you played any scenarios set during the Battle of Berlin at the end of WWII?

70% said "no, I have not"
23% said "yes, I have"

HMS Exeter29 Nov 2021 4:12 p.m. PST

I have a difficult time envisioning a more pointless contest.

Personal logo aegiscg47 Supporting Member of TMP29 Nov 2021 4:12 p.m. PST

Bill, you should have asked if anyone has played any scenarios for Operation Eclipse, which was the proposed plan where five Allied airborne divisions would be dropped in and around Berlin. Against the Odds magazine had an issue/game called Fortress Berlin and a supplement called On To Berlin that covers that operation. The magazine articles for that issue covered the operational plan, which was pretty interesting.

Dan Cyr29 Nov 2021 7:42 p.m. PST

Yes, several times, using "Crossfire" rules, where I got a French company of the SS Charlemagne brigade killed every time.

Bunkermeister Supporting Member of TMP29 Nov 2021 8:12 p.m. PST

It is one of my most favorite games. Like the Alamo it is not if you hold out against the enemy attack, but how long can you hold out and if anyone can escape.

Mike Bunkermeister Creek
Bunker Talk blog

Dn Jackson Supporting Member of TMP29 Nov 2021 9:52 p.m. PST

Not necessarily pointless, just a very diefferent kind of game. This was my post in the poll:

I ran a scenario years ago where two German players were trying to defend the city and got standard points, (destroying enemy units, holding out for x turns, etc.). A third German player had a group of very elite SS, but his goal was to push into Soviet territory and capture a bank, then get the gold off the table. The other Germans didn't know his goals.

The two Soviet players were competing against each other to capture certain terrain points first. This often led to the Soviets shooting at each other to get those VPs.

I based it on an article I read about the two major Soviet commanders competing to capture Berlin first. The competition was so fierce that fighting broke out between their commands.

Personal logo Bobgnar Supporting Member of TMP29 Nov 2021 9:55 p.m. PST

I have been collecting figures and buildings to do a Hitler escape from Berlin scenario. Lots of good source material

link

martin goddard Sponsoring Member of TMP30 Nov 2021 1:17 a.m. PST

Yes indeed.

Marc33594 Supporting Member of TMP30 Nov 2021 5:35 a.m. PST

Depends on if you count Seelow Heights part of the Battle of Berlin. If so, yes. A number of interesting battles there.

Heedless Horseman30 Nov 2021 6:28 a.m. PST

Very late war Germans can be interesting as you can field individual vehicles of differing types, scraped together into Battlegroups. You also have a very wide mix of troop types of varying capability and morale.
Russians… you can use those 1/144 prepaints with the white turret markings that you have accumulated!

As a 'What If' scenario, you can have Brit / US units (With some very late kit?), penetrating to Berlin and meeting Russians with cautious greetings. Then an arty barrage lands in the wrong place or a 'Jabo' makes a mistake…

Murvihill30 Nov 2021 6:35 a.m. PST

I ran a scenario where all 5 players were Russian and had to race through the streets to get to the Reichstag first. The Germans were programmed but I offered them to a 6th player with the understanding they had to follow their program.

Legion 430 Nov 2021 3:22 p.m. PST

On a scenario driven tactical level it could be interesting.

Operation Eclipse, which was the proposed plan where five Allied airborne divisions would be dropped in and around Berlin.
Now that would have been an interesting game. The 5 ABN Divs would probably be the US 82, 101, 17th & 13th + the UK 1st or 6th ?

Marc33594 Supporting Member of TMP01 Dec 2021 9:09 a.m. PST

Operation Eclipse was the western allies plan for the occupation of Germany following a surrender or a sudden collapse by the Germans. It was based on credible intelligence from Swedish sources that Russian forces might ignore agreed upon boundaries and seize more territory. Specifically Norway and Denmark were mentioned. There was a possible airborne element to seize key locations in Berlin should this sudden collapse occur. The allies did implement the ground, air and naval portions of the plan but not the possible airborne involvment.
link

link

There was preliminary planning for a combat role for allied airborne forces should the western allies continue towards Berlin. This apparently involved the US 17th, 82nd, 101st and a British airborne Brigade. Once Eisenhower made it clear they were leaving Berlin to the Soviets this was OBE.

Legion 401 Dec 2021 6:40 p.m. PST

Good intel … thanks !

Heedless Horseman03 Dec 2021 11:35 p.m. PST

Marc33594
That link to include Wismar is very interesting!

But, Airborne landings to occupy Berlin? Lightly armed Airborne, with probably unreliable relief / support… some Germans complaisant, others Fanatic hold-outs.. and very angry Red Army Armour / Inf / Arty… well, 'prelininary planning' fine… but just as well left alone.

Think that I have read that Western Forces, travelling to the 'Occupied Zones' of Berlin, found things 'rather tense'?

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