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"Russia is preparing to INVADE Ukraine by the end of January" Topic


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Legion 424 Jan 2022 9:28 a.m. PST

I disagree on a number of your points dogtail … but nothing says we have to agree. Especially on politics, etc. If you live outside the US your information may not be as detailed, etc., as in the US. Regardless of the internet, etc. All media is extremely biased, narrative & agenda driven, etc.

Most in the USA that do watch the "News" for one hour at dinner time are only getting a tiny, biased amount of "what really is happening"(?). Truth no longer generally in most of the medias' equations anymore.

But as I have said, Putin and Xi, Un and Iran see weakness now … and they will and are taking advantage of it. As they only have at best 3 years left to go as far as they want.

All the being said, the USA's current OPLAN calls for the deployment of up to 5000 troops. To somewhere in Eastern Europe. Have heard the Baltic States, Rumania,? IIRC, The US has about 125 SF and some NG training the Ukrainian forces. If the Russians cross the border, they will be evac'd by air. As is what is going to happen anyway to many of the US's diplomates and their families.

IIRC we have about 5000 troops in Poland now ? 5000 troops will probably be a Bde CBT Tm either Armor or Mech Heavy. E.g. Tank Hvy – 2 Tanks Bn + 1 Mech + FA, Gunships, and support assets. Mech Hvy – 2 Mech Bns + 1 Tank Bn. etc.

So if I am correct, that is 5000 troops in Poland + another 5000 in the Baltic States, Romania, ? So that would be 10,000 troops. Almost a Hvy Div.

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2022 9:49 a.m. PST

Interestingly the US spent 3.52 of their GDPon NATO. Only Greece was higher, 3.82. Germany 1.53. From "Press Release Communique de Press". I believe each country should pay the same percent. Would not the Netherlands benefit the same as Spain if invaded as a member of NATO?

We need, Russia needs, Europe needs, to be concerned about China. Now is the time that economic sanctions and tariffs can work against China. Very soon they may be too late.

FYI one of many short sighted moves by the current leader, was stopping the sanctions on the Nord Stream pipeline and curtailing our investment on energy independence. Just to spite Trump. Both allowed more control of Putin and less dependence of Europe on Russian gas and oil.

SBminisguy24 Jan 2022 10:03 a.m. PST

@SBminisguy
Trump wasnīt interested in politics outside of the US. He was interested in $$ and news coverage. And to get away from the §§

That may be your perception, but I see a different recent history in which Trump and team were very engaged globally, working to reinvigorate lax alliances (carrot and stick), a pushed back on China, Russia and Iran, and ultimately got the first Arab-Israeli peace deals signed since the Camp David accords of 40 years ago. Trump may have tweeted immoderately, but if you look at all his actions he governed as a traditional moderate.

And that matters because perception colors policy. What's your perception of Biden's global policies to date?

dogtail24 Jan 2022 10:55 a.m. PST

I am very glad that global politics normaly lies in the hands of experts, not in the hands of old men acting as a figurehead. With Trump the role of experts was diminished, right now it will go back to normal.
The USA will continue to try to push back China with their asian allies, they will work together with Nato allies to contain Russia. They will avoid getting involved in the Middle East more than necessary.
My perception of Biden is that he will have lots of trouble in the US, but be a team player by choice in global politics. My perception is that the USA are exhausted by their inner conflicts. And the attack on the democracy is not over. Kudos to Russia, astonishing how well they destabilized the global watchman of democracy

SBminisguy24 Jan 2022 11:10 a.m. PST

With Trump the role of experts was diminished, right now it will go back to normal.

Ahhh…and how's that working out? The collapse of Afghanistan, a resurgent Russia, rising violence in the Middle East and Syria heating up, Iran acting up, a belligerent China vocally discussing invading Taiwan and pushing Belt & Road globally…please save us from the experts! The same type of experts who missed the fall of the Wall, the collapse of the USSR, and every other major geopolitical event in the last 40 years.

My perception of Biden is that he will have lots of trouble in the US, but be a team player by choice in global politics.

To what end?? What "team play" is he supporting, pray tell?

dogtail24 Jan 2022 11:33 a.m. PST

The collapse of Afghanistan is due to withdrawl of every international help and the inability of some tribe leader to run a country.
It is an interesting example of how not to start a war without knowing how to end it. Vietnam seemed to be forgotten. Or Clausewitz.
Rising violence in the Middle east? Seems rather quite there to me?
Iran is pushed into a desperate situation. Desperate government tend to do stupid things.
China is a major problem in Asia, but Japan, Australia, the US and several asian states know it. But a problem of this magnitude canīt be solved, you have to live with it.

Btw the collapse of the Sovjet Union was predicted by some experts looking at the age pyramid, and this will be a major problem for China, too.

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2022 11:40 a.m. PST

Dogtail, your perception of our country and what is happening here seems to be a very clouded view of the reality here. Even the heavily liberally weighted polls are showing the President, Vice President and the Democratic Party in general, at the best, at no better then mid 40% in popularity. Most show below 40. Inflation is over 7%, the supply chain is a mess, gas has increased by over a dollar since his election, the stock market has been falling for practically 2 weeks, crime has increased in major cities and the West coast, Afghanistan was a total disaster, we are no longer energy independent, our Southern boarder is a disaster, we have had more Covid deaths since his election then ever before, the atmosphere of division was never higher. I could go on, but to what point? Trump was egotistic. He was contentious. He made people who did not like to hear people be mean, unhappy. He said things very undiplomatically, which made Our allies unhappy and other more liberal Republicans as well. He threatened the deep state, which scared them badly. He was not good with speeches. Of course he p#ssed of the liberal media to no end and they never gave him one hours of peace or credit, and made up lies and half truths whenever possible.

BUT he did what he promised and we were much better off then, then now. The last is my opinion, but shared but most I know.

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2022 1:35 p.m. PST

So Bill put me in the DH for making fun of Trump's assertion that George Washington' s army secured the airports during the AWI. Which Trump stated very clearly.

Because, Bill said, it was Politics. What exactly is all this? Pro Trump politics are okay and I just don't get it?

I am not a Biden guy, but let's say I believe that this one guy made us weak in 12 months.That takes care of the blame. And I believe that Trumps meeting with Putin in Helsinki was the way to handle him. That takes care of the politics.

So now, how about some ideas about how to tackle Russia going forward? What would you guys do as CinC? And how would it all work out?

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2022 2:19 p.m. PST

As I stated. I would not have sanctioned the nord stream pipeline and I would have continued the policy of energy independence and also that ability to export as well. Gas, oil and ammo pretty much are the Russian economic backbone. Get us back to max production. Build our pipelines.

In the short term, Our options are rather limited. Use what economic leverage we can, food, raw materials? Stop purchasing their products. Can we freeze any assets? Send weapons to the Ukraine. Europe has the real leverage, but are they willing to sacrifice for the Ukraine?

Sadly, short of open war with Russia, which I wholeheartedly disagree with, if Russia really wants the Ukraine again, they will get it. As we know, it won't be the first time.

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2022 2:26 p.m. PST

Tort, I just responded to what was already being said or implied. I don't believe I said anything that was not factual. Although, the market did go from over 1000 points down today, to over a hundred up. So it did not end up down. So corrected. 🙂

Now my opinion is all those problems and missteps, will weigh heavily in how this administration decides to handle the Ukraine. That is how it ties.

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2022 3:07 p.m. PST

True. Biden met with Merkel and the Germans put Nordstream 2 on hold in November. The Germans were selling their surplus gas to Poland last month, but this cannot last, I would guess. The Russians will almost certainly be blocked from their Swift accounts, which will restrict Putins oligarchs from getting at their money and could hurt his support. But who knows?

We are sending weapons, are they the right ones?

Britain, France, Denmark Sweden are planning or taking action, moving troops, coordinating intel, etc. How much difference does this make?

If NATO is so weak, why does Putin care if Ukraine joins? Or did we strengthen lax alliances? We were repeatedly told our military had been completely overhauled and brought up to speed in the last administration. How should we use it?

How is Russia resurgent? They did not have this capacity last year? Since we have no experts, how do we know this? It does not matter. How do you stop Putin now?

How much of a deterrent is 10,000 U.S troops ? Would you increase this number? What about naval and air presence?

China is focused on the Olympics, Israel on Iran. The Hamas navy is coping with attacks by dolphins. Are we able to focus on Ukraine for now?

How do we stop Putin? How do we respond if he attacks?

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2022 3:47 p.m. PST

I would assume Russia would like a buffer again. There is a great paranoia in their government and always has been. Justified? Unjustified? Guess that depends on who is talking and listening. Putin needs something to take peoples minds off troubles at home and I think he has a power complex. I don't live in Russia and don't know how happy or unhappy people there are.

The short answer Tort, is short of war, which I would NOT advise, not a whole lot. Would you be willing to go to the front lines to defend the Ukraine? Send your son, daughter, grandson, granddaughter? How about taking a hit from a nuke for the Ukraine? My answer is no. If your answer is the same, then we should not expect our troops to do that.

If your answer is no, then economics is it and we threw our best 2 trump cards away last year. No, that was NOT meant as a pun. 🙂

Do you have an option I missed?

Tango0124 Jan 2022 4:47 p.m. PST

NATO Bolsters Deployments To Eastern Europe


YouTube link

YouTube link


link


Armand

Legion 424 Jan 2022 5:00 p.m. PST

My perception is that the USA are exhausted by their inner conflicts.
Yes as 35th OVI posted you don't have an accurate assessment of the US. We are not exhausted as many of us don't like the way things are going and we will vote to change things. That is the way democracy works in our Republic.

And the attack on the democracy is not over.
Whose attacks ? Where ?

Kudos to Russia, astonishing how well they destabilized the global watchman of democracy
Once KBG … always KGB … He and his associates are masters at what they do. Sadly as I said before in these "talks" … one = liberal naive, amateurs … the other = a predator.

Also just heard on the news, the US has 8500 troops on alert/prepped to deploy to somewhere in the East. But not Ukraine. Have no idea what the breakdown of the 8500 are. Again I'm basing this on my experience, etc., this force may be a Mech or Armor heavy Bde Cbt Tm ?

However, lighter forces are easier and quicker to deploy. E.g. 82d ABN, 101 Air Asslt, 10th MTN, 173d ABN Bde, RANGERS, USMC, etc. So that may be who gets the mission ?

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2022 7:01 p.m. PST

I agree 35th. I have no claims to expertise or reliable sources on Ukraine.

I just wondered what some of our friends here might say, which turns out to be mostly not much on this political one way street. I pray for peace and integrity in leadership, for my grandkids and my country down the road. But I have eyes and ears and I am no fool.

Legion, thank you once again for your service and all the valuable insights into army organization and training. Much appreciated. It has been a pleasure! All the best, Tort

dogtail25 Jan 2022 5:33 a.m. PST

Yeah maybe you are right, I should have wrote the USA is occupied by their inner conflicts, and I am exhausted by watching them. Argueing about Social health care at the late start of the 21st century is hilarious (we got that under Bismarck in 1883), your winner/loser mind set without the ability to compromise is paralysing congress, More and more people distrust the government and election results.

The attack on US democracy happened on the 6th of January 2021. It was an attempted coup. If you canīt see it, ask an independant observer. Those are easier to find abroad, cause sometimes it is easier to see things from the outside than being occupied by day-to-day politics

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2022 6:57 a.m. PST

@dogtail do I comment about the politics of Germany? I don't follow German newspapers and news casts. I try not to make judgements on Germany based on US news services, especially CNN. I also don't base my knowledge of German politics based on comments from friends, late shows, limited web sources or talk shows.

Maybe we in the US should pay more attention to yours, as your countries internal politics, have effected us, much more then ours, yours. Maybe if we had, my second cousin would not have been killed at Morville-Sur-Seille manning a 57mm anti tank gun during a German counter attack.

dogtail25 Jan 2022 8:11 a.m. PST

I guess Your second cousin fought for liberty, freedom of speech and democracy.
My Vaterland lost its fight against the enemies of democracy. I thank your second cousin for his sacrifice which enabled my country to regain its freedom.
My home town was protected by soldiers from three different nations against surrounding enemies of democracy. An american president called himself a citizen of my hometown. Seeing the democracy of the USA undermined by a leader and his cultists makes me angry. Did your second cousin fight for overturning an election by a narcist or for equality of all men?
I do comment on US politics, cause it matters. To all of us.

SBminisguy25 Jan 2022 8:49 a.m. PST

The attack on US democracy happened on the 6th of January 2021. It was an attempted coup. If you canīt see it, ask an independant observer.

Yeah…sure…a coup by a few hundred unarmed people who mostly meandered around the Capitol Building taking selfies. A coup in which the only person killed was a former military MP trying to keep the crowd from going through the doors to the main chamber when a DC cop panicked and shot her in the throat. Go register for the Blue Fez if you want to engage in a conversation and challenge each other's respective bubble views.

But see, these world views we have color our perspective on so many things, including the Russia-Ukraine conflict. And they keep you from seeing what's happening in US domestic politics -- be happy on the Fez to discuss voting and democracy and so on.

thebluefez.com/msg.mv?id=13013

To me it's very simple. Putin sees a weak US president who is possibly mentally incompetent and distracted by domestic power grabs, and whose actions in Afghanistan led to an historic failure for the US. So he's gonna push to get as much as he can. He's obviously a "hard power" kinda guy, and wants to reset Ukraine to get rid of an anti-Putin reformer and put a pro-Putin puppet in place.

And he may not believe any statements of US resolve because of Afghanistan where the Biden admin completely blew it, misjudged the Taliban, spun and lied about the situation as it led a rout of US forces out. All accompanied by tough talk. So he doesn't believe Biden's tough talk, and that's the danger. Putin may believe that he can act swiftly enough to achieve his goals before the US acts, or that the US may not act all. That's in contrast to Trump, who despite his "mean" tweets actually followed through on his statements and "red lines," which is why Putin didn't try overt military action against Ukraine while he was President.

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2022 9:12 a.m. PST

Thanks for the thought. I don't know if he volunteered or was drafted. 2 Uncles and another cousin did the same. As did one other in the Bataan Death March. So 3 in Asia, 1 or in Italy. All the others survived, but all dead now.

I assume you are insinuating the previous President with your comments. Although the current's hard core supporters, could easily be classified the same way. Most of those who voted for and supported the policies of the previous President, were not cultists. There might be some loons, but they exist on both sides of the aisle. All I know who supported him, believed in his policies and believe the other side were and are a bigger threat to Democracy.

Since you keep bringing up the 6th. That was as much an "insurrection", as the groups leading the Jewish rebels in "The Life of Brian" were capable of a revolt against Rome. The only people killed directly in each group, rioters and police, were on the civilian side. Both women. One a unarmed white women, multiple year Air Force veteran shot by a capital police officer. We know what has happened when unarmed black men in this country have been shot by police. But the "cultists" you mention, have NOT taken to the street, rioting, burning, looting and killing, as we have seen in Portland, Milwaukee and other cities when the opposite happened.

That is what I mean by your sources of what is happening here seem to be very biased and one sided. I would be happy to recommend some websites from the "other" side if you would like. I believe your perceptions of what is happening will change. Some of those sites put questionable things out there, but no more so than the other side. After reading both for a period of 6 months and then seeing which turn out to be more accurate, see what your perceptions are.

SBminisguy25 Jan 2022 9:46 a.m. PST

Let's take it to the Blue Fez if you want to explore this more. The dangerous nature of a weak president like Biden is that they are unpredictable as to when they may actually stand firm on a "red line" the adversary should not cross. And that's where the greatest risk of conflict is. That type of uncertainty, where an aggressive strongman takes more and more belligerent actions based on perceived weakness, is how we got WW2…the Korean War…the Gulf War, etc.

As for what to do with this situation?

1. Make no threats or promises you will not keep (hard for the current pres to do, I know)

2. At a minimum any invasion or incursion by Russia into Ukraine should be responded to with heavy economic penalties -- seize assets, discontinue oil/gas purchases where possible from Russia (hard to do since current POTUS is busy collapsing the US energy production sector). some sliding scale of explusions – expel Russian diplomatc, Russian nationals, businesses, etc. Oh, and two can play at the cyberhacking game.

3. Continue aiding Ukraine with arms, aid and $$, help them also create a strong insurgency and let Putin know if he thought little Chechnya was bad, just wait until he bleeds his military out in Ukraine.

4. Try the carrot as well -- good behavior gets good things as well. Not sure what that looks like. How about brokering a Russia-Ukraine trade deal? It worked in the Balkans under last POTUS. How about joint security guarantees? I know Putin wants to do this at the point of a gun once his Puppet is in Kiev, but that's just not a wise idea in the long run. I mean, seriously, if Putin's goal was a safer Russia, then Russians would be better served by Russia becoming a key trade and economic partner with neighbor states rather than a hungry wolf they need to arm up against.

Guess we'll see.

dogtail25 Jan 2022 9:53 a.m. PST

Trump did one thing right: he made the US troops leave Afghanistan. Biden blundered it, no doubt.
Trump ordered the US military to abandon their kurdish allies in Syria. Which is now a stronghold of russian interests. He wanted Russia to regain its seat at the G8. I am tired of talking about this guy. Mexico will pay for it, haha.

The coup was trying to pressure Pence not to recognize the results in several states. The storming of the capitol was something for the gallery, but it took the life of 10 (ten) Citizen of the USA.

To you itīs very simple…if politics isnīt one thing for sure, it would be simple. International politics: sure, it is simple. Just show strenght, and you win. Like Trump won the trade war with China. Yeah.

SBminisguy25 Jan 2022 10:19 a.m. PST

Trump ordered the US military to abandon their kurdish allies in Syria. Which is now a stronghold of russian interests. He wanted Russia to regain its seat at the G8. I am tired of talking about this guy. Mexico will pay for it, haha.

1. He didn't "abandon kurdish allies" in Syria. There are no "the Kurds," just multiple factions. The main faction we allied with is still in northern Iraq, and the group in Syria was an offshoot of the PKK that allied itself with the Syrian government within 24 hours of the Us "abandoning them." We never should have been there in the first place. Who cares if Syria is still Russia's ally in the region as it has been for what, like 70 years???

2. Trump wanted Russia to regain its G8 seat -- yep, he was trying the carrot. Russia should be aligned with Europe and the US instead of adversaries, and Trump was trying rapproachment -- which was screwed by the Russiagate attacks. Gotta tell ya, after being a life long Cold Warrior it was truly bizarre to see the Democrats become fierce anti-Russian Hawks! This isn't the Cold War, Russia is not the existential threat the USSR was, and China now has become. China's the real threat, not Russia -- and even Putin should be nervous about his vast, unsecurable Siberian resources. Does he think China's gonna stay away from that tasty prize forever??

3. Mexico did pay for it with their own southern security build up, hah ha…abandoned now given the open borders of the current POTUS. Say, how would you feel if 2 million people a year just walked across the border into your nation and you had no idea who they were, their COVID status, or anything -- and promptly went on social welfare?

4. "The coup was trying to pressure Pence not to recognize the results in several states." No, you don't know the US political system. There is a constitutional mechanism of certification of the electors, and the appeals at Pence were to order the contested states to validate the initial certifications pending legal reviews. For example, we know now that in Wisconsin some 155,000 123 year-olds are on record as having voted in the 2020 election. Does that seem possible or even likely to you? Since the margin of victory was a fraction of that, perhaps something odd happened, eh? That's what the pressure on Pence was about. And the "storming of the Capitol" was an unplanned riot with a lot of odd things associated with it -- why did Nancy Pelosi and the District of Columbia refuse Trump offers of additional security from the National Guard? Why did the DC police not provide extra security at the Capitol? Why did the Capitol Hill police, controlled by Pelosi, also refuse offers of extra security from the Trump admin and DC? And yes, people died so we need to know what happened – 2 women were killed by police, several had heart attacks. One officer had a stroke after the event and 3 others committed suicide afterwards. But one thing is sure, Pelosi knows exactly what happened -- she controls the Capitol Hill Police, she has all the security camera footage. So why doesn't she just tell us? Why the show trials?

To you itīs very simple…if politics isnīt one thing for sure, it would be simple. International politics: sure, it is simple. Just show strenght, and you win. Like Trump won the trade war with China. Yeah.

Yes, it is straightforward if you know who you're dealing with and are rooted in reality. Putin is a classic bully, of a type we've seen time and time again. How do you handle a bully like him? What are your goals vs their goals? Where can you use the carrot (getting back on the G8, etc.), and when do you need to use the stick (expel diplomats, sanctions, etc.). Where can you find common ground to lay conditions for peace? (e.g. the Balkans trade deal under the last POTUS, or the joint terrorism center between Israel and several Arab states).

And then what's your "going to s**t plan" look like? Does the other side know about it, and do they believe you're serious about it?

dogtail25 Jan 2022 10:31 a.m. PST

What I always admired about the US was freedom of speech and the willingness to debate, accepting different points of view.
I totally understand why somebody did not vote for Hillary Clinton. Period. I donīt consider a Trump voter a cultist per se, but I still see Trump as the first president in my life span that refused to follow the voting results.
The stupidity of the political landscape is obvious if you think that an vote for Biden means supporting looting in Portland. Would be the same as voting for any republican candidate automatically means being in support of white supremacy.
Biden does not want to collapse the energy sector. He is a patriot. As are an awful lot of US citizens. Those branding of a differnt political view as unpatriotic is more harmful than putting your boots on the desk of Madame Pelosi.

Btw I like your second and fourth point, SBmg, it is exactly what the German government wants. And trade could create a win-win solution for all sides

Legion 425 Jan 2022 10:39 a.m. PST

Legion, thank you once again for your service and all the valuable insights into army organization and training. Much appreciated.
Thank you & you are welcome !

The attack on US democracy happened on the 6th of January 2021. It was an attempted coup. If you canīt see it, ask an independant observer. Those are easier to find abroad, cause sometimes it is easier to see things from the outside than being occupied by day-to-day politics
That is not an accurate statement, and not just IMO. It was a riot, by a small number of those there. As others here also pointed out …

If it was supposed to be an insurrection/coup, it was very poorly handled. And was compounded by those in charge not heeding based on the intel to have the NG there days before. Some in power get milage out of calling it a coup/insurrection. It fits their narrative and agenda …

Now someone not living here … well, being here one sees what really happened or is happening. The tail is wagging the dog again. But those that stormed the Capital were very wrong, they broke the law. And should be treated as criminals.

However, with over 700 arrests. It turned into a "witch hunt" with many being arrested who were guilty of nothing. And treated poorly when imprisoned, etc. The terrorists in Gitmo are treated better. Now all of this is the real threat to democracy.

Trump did one thing right: he made the US troops leave Afghanistan.
That may prove to be a strategic error. As was pulling out all troops out of Iraq. Causing the rise of ISIS. However in this case the next POTUS for the most part destroyed the ISIS caliphate and it's cultist leaders. ISIS is a dim shadow of what it was. As the POTUS let the US military do it's job.
Biden blundered it, no doubt.
Totally agree as do many on active duty and Vets. It will go down in history as the way not to do this type of ops. I know as being a former Infantry and Air Ops Officer in the 101.

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2022 10:52 a.m. PST

SBminisguy+1 I have said almost all I can without getting in trouble. It is sad that so much of what I read in here from those in Europe and and other countries, seem to be influenced by what is reported about what is happening here by CNN, the New York Times, AP and BBC. What is reflected there may be the beliefs of much of the West Coast and the blue cities and one party, but not of a a lot outside those areas.

There were many things that happened with the last election, that were never done in any other election, with Covid being used as the excuse. Again this is outside the realm of this site. I will say one more time, please open yourself up to news from all venues. You will be surprised how much is different then what you believe is accurate. I have said all I can on this and am done.

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2022 11:00 a.m. PST

Legion +1

dogtail25 Jan 2022 11:22 a.m. PST

SB minisguy wrote:
For example, we know now that in Wisconsin some 155,000 123 year-olds are on record as having voted in the 2020 election.

link

Wisconsin municipalities kept their own registration records — and the smallest municipalities weren't required to keep records at all — until a 2002 federal law required a statewide database and a standard format.

When a municipality's system didn't track a voter's date of birth or initial date of registration, a default date was entered into the statewide system: 1/1/1900 for date of birth and 1/1/1918 for date of registration. Such placeholders for missing information have been used by other states as well.

As of the fall of 2021 in Wisconsin, there were still about 3,700 active voter records that contain default information for date of birth and about 120,000 records exist in the system with a default date of voter registration.

dogtail25 Jan 2022 11:45 a.m. PST

There is the German saying: you hang the little guy, the big guy you let run away.
Meaning you put 700 people on trial for smashing windows and assaulting police officers, but the people in the background that tried to keep Trump in power you do not harm. It is a disgrace…

What caused the rise of ISIS was the lack of perspective for Iraquis that backed Saddam Hussein. Invading Iraq and defeating Saddam was not the end of any mission. Winning a war is only done if you are winning a peace.

If I would be Potus I would ask some smart guys what would happen to Mexico if I stop the War on Drugs. And how can the USA improve economic conditions there. Then I would put more taxes on stock gaines.

SBminisguy25 Jan 2022 12:38 p.m. PST

Biden does not want to collapse the energy sector. He is a patriot.

Well, if he doesn't want to – he should re-examine the policies that turned the US from energy independence and a next energy exporter into an energy starved nation where the average price of gas has gone up by 90% in my area.

SBminisguy+1 I have said almost all I can without getting in trouble.

Yep. But the relevancy is being able to see the same problems, and this find commons solutions. If you think the Jan 6 riot was a deep threat to democracy in the US you're missing the forest for the trees.

SBminisguy25 Jan 2022 12:40 p.m. PST

Btw I like your second and fourth point, SBmg, it is exactly what the German government wants. And trade could create a win-win solution for all sides

Glad we can agree on something!

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2022 2:19 p.m. PST

@SB, I said I would not comment again, but… are you thinking I thought January 6th was a deep threat? If so, reread what I said.

Jan 6th was a demonstration that got out of hand. You don't try overthrowing a government, with a bunch of sticks and send your least intelligent people to do it. Not one Congressman or Senator touched. The Capital still standing unburnt or torn to pieces, no statues pulled down. Don't even think there was graffiti. Some broken windows, but police bullets will do that. Monty Python could not have scripted it better. Were those who did it wrong? Yes for sure. Were those who burnt, looted, pillaged and murdered in Portland, Milwaukee and elsewhere wrong? Absolutely!

Of the two groups, which is still in jail, without trial or bail? Hint. Not the ones from Portland and elsewhere. Does that seem fair?

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2022 2:46 p.m. PST

@dogtail. Thought about this while working out. Maybe this will help you understand a little the perspective of those who took part in January 6th.

I live in Ohio. All my life, I have had to show a photo ID, (driver's license) when I vote and my name must appear on the list as a registered voter at the address on my license. My drivers license just expired. To get my new license (which is now needed to board planes due to new government regulations) I had to have my old license, my birth certificate and a bill showing my name and current address. I cashed a check today, I had to have my drivers license and a money card for that bank. Now anyone in Ohio, white, black, green or yellow, has to have the same thing.

But in some of the states, mail in ballots were sent to any individual that appeared on the voter rolls. No matter if they asked for it, or not and with no verification if they still lived there, or were even alive. So I could live at that address and fill it out and send it in, with no verification if I was that person, or not. Basically there was no validation if those ballots were legitimate or not. You could have gone into a nursing home, filled out the ballot for the elderly with dementia and taken them all in. No verification.

We were supposed to have people watching those counting ballots, but because of Covid, they were not allowed closer than 6 feet from those counting. Please, next time you
play a wargame, have your opponent write down what their move will be for that turn. After the turn, set 6 feet away and have them put the paper flat in front of them. Tell me if you can really verify at 6 feet away, that they did what they wrote down. In some cases verifiers had to stand further than 6 feet. Bags of ballots were brought in late in the evening, where almost all votes turned out to be for one candidate. All the above and more were done "because of Covid", and now those in power want the mail in process and other changes to be the rule. There were other changes "made for Covid", but my finger is tired, maybe someone else can list them.

All many of us want is true verification that those voting are who they say they are. Does that help to understand the other side?

Tango0125 Jan 2022 4:30 p.m. PST

NATO Member Croatia Will Withdraw Troops From Eastern Europe In The Event Of A Russia -Ukraine War


link


Armand

Legion 425 Jan 2022 6:08 p.m. PST

What caused the rise of ISIS was the lack of perspective for Iraquis that backed Saddam Hussein.
Not completely correct. Once all US troops were gone, the Iraq Army couldn't effectively take on ISIS. The new terrorist group on the block.

We saw similar recently in A'stan and you can go back as far as Vietnam too. The US leaves … the home team after being trained & outfitted with US equipment can't take on the local enemy.

Biden does not want to collapse the energy sector. He is a patriot.
WDF !?!!?!?!

but the people in the background that tried to keep Trump in power you do not harm. It is a disgrace…
Again … WDF !?!??!

As of the fall of 2021 in Wisconsin, there were still about 3,700 active voter records that contain default information for date of birth and about 120,000 records exist in the system with a default date of voter registration.
That is a can of cobras you don't want to get near. When it comes the US voting system in 2021 … IMO and others … it was cluster Bleeped text

I live in Ohio. All my life,
Go Bucks !!!! 👍👍👍👌🖖

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2022 6:49 p.m. PST

O! H! I! O!

Now if you are Browns fan too. 😉

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2022 8:05 p.m. PST

This energy assessment is total bull, not your fault though, pretend news sources. We never stopped importing oil, millions of barrels every day of the last admin. We don't even have any overall production data yet for the past year or so. The two Biden executive orders will take years to impact the oil market.
If they really do make a significant difference.

Did you happen to notice the economic impact of the pandemic? Hello? The entire world market has been altered and shaken in a thousand ways.

Divisive misinformed destructive partisan politics based on internal power struggles is the weakness Putin sees in the barely United States. The whole freakin' world has seen it for the last few years.

When Putin sees his biggest enemy bitterly and hopelessly divided, a situation he and the last POTUS helped create, he is bound to jump. Basic principle of war, somehow missed – here at TMP of all places. The sky is still blue, but that won't last for long either.
And now I really must be going. Let the ramparts be rammed. I am not happy on this one way street anyway, sucked into the vortex. My own dumb fault.

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2022 8:28 p.m. PST

@Tort I have stated before to you, you seem to be open to other views. May I ask, what sources that disagree with your views, do you read and listen to with regularity? Not listen for few minutes and turn the channel, actually spend days, weeks and months to get a fair assessment to compare against.

Just one example: "Covid came from a wet market". I don't know how long CNN, MSNBC and others pushed that narrative and ridiculed anyone who disagreed. I know, because I listed to them. That was not the case from other alternative "false news" sources, including a certain Chinese lady. All stated that it came from the Wuhan lab. The only real question anymore, is if it was an accident, or intentional. We will never know that, because any evidence was quickly covered and our media pushed the wet market theory.

I only say this because you seem to be open to other views, I am just not sure you have actually given them a fair chance. Trust me, it is really hard to do. I spent 2 years listening to ABC, CBS and NBC evening news during the last Presidency to make a judgment. I even watched CNN, but 6 months was as much as I could take of them.

The best to you.

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2022 11:06 p.m. PST

As do you 35th, I sense you take a good look at things, better than me.

I watched Fox News almost from the beginning and stuck with them more or less until just after the last election. They did a good job that night, but after that, forget it. The change is incredible and the last news voice, Chris Wallace, just left. I often disagreed with them,, but I did see their point many a time. But they also omit a ton of news, self censored to keep their viewers happy. I suppose they all do that.

I watch PBS news.I cannot stand CNN or MSNBC, never watch the big traditional news programs. Never listen to AMtalk radio. I read the WSJ and NYT. I have never read the WAPO in my life. I avoid things online like Huffington or the Federalist. I use 538 for polling info. Follow AP, BBC, Reuters as go to sources. I read Fortune, TheWeek, National Review, the Atlantic, Field and Stream type mags. It may be that these sources are not always objective, so I look for documentation online sometimes. I use no social media of any kind.

I am retired from government service. I have seen a lot and have a certain viewpoint that does not always agree with todays views on either side.

I wish Eisenhower was president.

I believe the Chinese would weaponize most anything. But I have a couple of medical friends in government who think Fauci is probably right in this case. My friends are not fan boys and they are not ruling out anything. They know we will never get access to the info we need on this.

Government suffers political interference on a routine basis. But believe it or not it gets some things right, is served by many patriotic people. If there is a deep state, I never saw it, just political corruption. . I hope people here can believe that, but we may be past it. I will keep trying to find the middle ground.

The best to you as well, 35th! . I never got so much figure painting done as when I was in the Dawg House. Lesson learned.

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2022 5:19 a.m. PST

Ok, thanks Tort. We come from opposite ends of the political spectrum. Also I retired from private sector, you from government, which explains the difference in political views somewhat and what sources we believe to be more accurate.
But I believe I can discuss differing views with you, as opposed to some others. I doubt we would agree often on politics. 😉

I will never trust the Chinese and have been crying in the wildernesses about them since the 80's and the company I worked for at the time, fired all their US manufacturing employees and built brand new plants in China. They were obviously not alone at that time, nor the only Western country. That gave China modern manufacturing plants they can later nationalize at their leasure. Employed their people for them. Gave them access to new technology and industrial and military espionage. Put billions of free cash into their hands. All of which, has allowed them to build and advance the military, far from what they ever could have without it. All because shortsighted industrialists could have slave labor and maximize their short term profits and stock prices. I did not work in manufacturing, I was IT. Of course they later sold that out to cheap Indian IT, but I went on to other better companies.

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2022 8:00 a.m. PST

A good assessment of some of the options:

link

Legion 426 Jan 2022 9:39 a.m. PST

Now if you are Browns fan too.
Usually !!!!

.I cannot stand CNN or MSNBC, never watch the big traditional news programs
They should be on the SyFy or Comedy Channel … 🤡

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2022 10:27 a.m. PST

Legion they all get to have their say whether we like it or not. Including the so called "stars" on the evening cable news. All done with mirrors… and we don't want those other channels ruined!

35th, a good assessment of Putin. He is already winning. If thinks he will get bogged down and take a beating like the Soviets did in Afghanistan, maybe he will hold off.

BTW, my government service was not in a bureaucratic capacity. I have seen the damage bureaucracies do, dealt with them by avoiding them whenever I could. But I would caution anyone not to paint the government with a broad brush. It's huge, far too big, but that also means that not everyone there is the enemy, there are patriots too.

And with that…it's time to paint some of Roger's Rangers.

Legion 426 Jan 2022 10:41 a.m. PST

Legion they all get to have their say whether we like it or not. Including the so called "stars" on the evening cable news. All done with mirrors… and we don't want those other channels ruined!
Indeed … We have a free press & freedom of speech etc., in our nation. That means as we all know, anyone can say anything they want generally. Whether White Supremacists, BLM, etc. Plus the legacy or cable news as well … Accuracy, bias, agenda, narrative, etc. is all part of this equation …

there are patriots too.
Which as we know … that is in the eyes of the beholder. E.g. NYC removed Teddy Rosevelt's and Jefferson's statues. But put up a statue of George Floyd … Again it's all in the eyes' of the beholder. IMO as opposed to BLM … I say All Lives Matter …
Save for terrorists/jihadis, etc., types, they nothing but targets to be serviced. Often and in large numbers …

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP26 Jan 2022 1:33 p.m. PST

Legion – There are probably 2 million civilian employees in the federal government. Of the elected and appointed politicians and family members they stick on your payroll, I trust nobody. Especially the appointed gang. Of the rest, I trust half. Maybe.

Of those, there are bad ones and there are thousands doing a decent job, people who do not care at all who the POTUS is and do not talk politics at work like you or I would here. And they make no decisions on statues or other political stuff. That's for the political bigwigs to order up.

Terrorists are big time murderers. Proceed accordingly, plenty of targets.

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2022 6:50 a.m. PST

One thing I do understand on the Russian side, is their demand that the Ukraine never be part of NATO. It is understandable. We would not have wanted Mexico part of the Warsaw Pact. That is a concession that we should give and cost us nothing. I heard we refused to give that concession.

Barin127 Jan 2022 8:35 a.m. PST

Both Russian and Ukrainian officials in their public speeches said once again that they're not expecting war.
And at the same time:

- Ukraine is struggling to borrow on international capital markets because of borderline "hysteria" over a Russian attack, an adviser to Ukraine's president has told Reuters.

Oleg Ustenko, an aide to President Volodymyr Zelenskiy, told the news agency in Kyiv that borrowing had become "not impossible, but extremely difficult".

He said:

In the context of a sharp increase in the degree of discussions around issues related to the security of Ukraine, which sometimes border on hysteria, the country's opportunities for entering foreign capital markets are limited.

I wonder who can benefit if Ukraine can't borrow at lower interest rates anymore…and our stock market is very slowly recovering after panic withdrawal of foreign investors end of last week.

And yes, according to the available info "The doors of NATO are still opened to all". I don't think that Russia actually hoped for the promise that Ukraine would never join NATO…still, as long as it is simply not happening due to anything, starting from Biden's horoscope to gas prices it will be fine.
Also I'm interested to see what arms reduction treaties can be resurrected.

Tortorella Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2022 9:41 a.m. PST

I also thought that at first, 35th. I think the US is saying that Ukraine has its own right to make such a choice, pending approval or not by all of NATO. It's not a concession we can make for another nation.
Second, Putin cannot be trusted, and it feels a bit like appeasement to give him anything, unless the Ukrainians decide they want this. If Ukraine were part of NATO the invasion option would be far riskier for him. Even if he doesn't try it now, he will always have it on his agenda. So we are better off keeping him worried about it. My opinion as I understand things.
It looks like supertankers are headed to Europe with natural gas, to offset the Russians cutting off energy supplies there if we impose heavy economic sanctions. Per the NYT, each ship has three times the amount of gas that Russia is selling to Europe each day. Loss or reduction of this market would be serious for Putin, even short term.

I think Europe is about at 30 per cent renewable energy, not enough yet. But Russia is a petrostate, maybe energy war is the best way to oppose them, along with going after their oligarchs' money.

soledad27 Jan 2022 9:44 a.m. PST

@35OVI the problem with saying Ukraine cannot join NATO if they want to is that Russia then decides what a free country can or cannot do.

Russia would basically have a veto over Ukraines foreign policy.

And why cannot Ukraine join NATO? What is the threat against Russia if Ukraine joins a DEFENSIVE alliance?

It is easy for certain people to give concessions that costs them nothing. Also what message would it send to small NATO countries like Latvia, Estoinia och Lithuania if the US "bargains away" some things at the expense of small countries. Maybe next time they will bargain away other small countries.

Then the word of the USA is no longer worth anything if even the US gives up against aggression.

35thOVI Supporting Member of TMP27 Jan 2022 10:32 a.m. PST

Russia is paranoid. Not maybe the people, but the government. It has been all through history. Sometimes justified, sometimes not. But they are. I can understand why they would feel paranoid about a NATO Ukraine. Justified or not. What if NATO put tactical nukes there? We can say that would not happen, but who foresaw Hitler, Napoleon and others? We went berserk in the 60's when Russia tried to do that in Cuba. That nearly ended in a nuclear war. I remember hiding under my school table in the first grade during drills for that war. Like that would have made a difference.

Do we believe that Germany, France, Great Britain, The Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Turkey, The US or most of the rest, would really come running to the aid of the Ukraine if they were in NATO and Russia invaded? Maybe some of their neighboring countries would, because they would believe they were next. Could Poland, Estonia, and other neighbors throwing their weight behind them, stop the Russians?

The Ukraine itself is divided, between pro Russian and anti Russian.

Other then sending weapons and economic sanctions, short of WW3, you cannot stop Russia if they want the Ukraine. So a promise to not admit them to NATO IF the Russians withdraw their troops, is a small price to pay. If it also allows the Ukrainians to retain their sovereignty and their lives, I would think they would see it as a small price.

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