"Good recent Bavarian Army source book" Topic

I had a brief scan of threads on Bavarians and did not see any reference to the book I have just bought, published in 2018.

The Bavarian Army 1806-1813 by Peter Bunde. Originally published in German.

Probably the best readable source book for my interest in wargaming I have ever had. Very good uniform plates as opposed to the Osprey posed images. And, if you saw my post asking for the colour of the epaulette of the artillery train, it is all very clearly shown in this book.

Highly recommended.

Thanks for the recommendation. I will have to check it out.

The Saxon Army 1810-1813 by Peter Bunde published in English in 2018 (paperback) is also good.

But the Westphalian Army in the Napoleonic Wars 1807-1813 by Peter Bunde is magnificent, but expensive! (Hardback and large)

Alternatively I find his plates that he sells on particular regiments are excellent sources for uniforms during the Napoleonic Wars, particularly for those unusual regiments. The detail in one plate covers nearly everything you need. But ensure you request the English translation for each plate you order.

@Robert Herlinger. Thank you for the heads up on the Saxon Army book as that will be my next project after Victrix make the Bavarians available.

Hopefully the Saxons will be able to be easily converted from existing plastic sets, but the book should guide me if it as good as the Bavarian one.

The Westphalian book sounds interesting but in my period, there were not many around!

Well that was disappointing. I checked my Perrys and Victrix British, French and Austrian cavalry horses and they all have sheepskins apart from the Victrix lancer horses which have other issues.

If anyone knows of plastic 28mm horses with a plain shabraque which tapers to a point at the back, I would be very grateful as I really do not want to paint metals again!

I aim to use spare heads from the Victrix Bavarians and the spare bodies I have to make Bavarian Chevau-legere. But I need the horses.

@Mutford I found some inaccuracies and missing units from Peter Bunde's book which is a shame. I recommend the late Rawkins collection of Napoleonic Uniform books on CD as the closest to being accurate.

Are those Rawkins books still available somewhere?

@Marcus Maximus

What inaccuraries did you find? I cannot immagine that the late Rawkins had better sources than the Bunde / Gaärtner / Stein book, which is my first reference to consult regarding Bavarian army.

There I am quite interested in this army, please let me know your findings.

Not from Bunde's book, but some portraits I have saved over the years of searching the internet for Bavarian Cavalry. Also, a decent amount of portraits out there of infantry officers as well as many paintings by Albrecht Adam and von Kobell who witnessed firsthand the uniforms of the time period. Bunde's modern plates are a great source and do make it easier to have everything in one place. However, still can't beat Cantler's plates found link

Carl von Mannlich seconde lieutenant of Chevaulegersregiment König, 1811

Leopold Wolfgang Balduin von Zandt Chevaulegers von Konig son of General von Zandt killed at Battle of Landshut 1809

Kronprinz Ludwig von Bayern 1807

Just to "relieve" Peter, the texts were written by Markus Gärtner and me, Peter has delivered the infographics

Greetings
Markus Stein

P.S. the Westphalian book had been written by Markus Gärtner alone, Thomas Hemmann provided the war history

Good to see you here, Markus!
Just in case there are TMP members not aware of your website, here is the link: link
It is unquestionably amongst the very best Napoleonic sites on the web.
Kind regards
Allan

Very nice portraits, but Cantler is not contemporary either.

As for an overall work, not only discussing uniforms I cannot see a book in English which beats the Stein, Gärtner and Bunde book.

As to their mistakes, I would like to be made aware of.

All very good… and yes Markus is to be congratulated on his sites/ domains plural.

I have a query for 'mike the collector'- [as 1809 is your interest] do you have any references to earlier campaigns such as 1805 and Bavarian 'Liaison Officers' attached to the French? These, like to emigre-Polish 'interpreters' are much overlooked and I feel I must employ some…
cheers d

@vonW briefly as I'm up to my eyes in projects, missing units as a starter for ten *rolls eyes* I do have the Bunde book and good book it is however, as always, I obtain multiple sources and compare / contrast, as even modern literature can be wrong sometimes ;)

Firstly let me say that I also think that this book is generally excellent and contains information that I haven't seen before.

However, it has raised a query that (before I have to start repainting) I was wondering if anyone (vonW?) may be able to help with.

On the plate on p53 and also in the text on p52, Bunde shows the distinction colours until 1809 as either black piped white or green, with the new distinction colours shown from 1811. All my other sources (Osprey, Rawkins etc) show the distinction colours as having all changed by 1806 to either black piped red or red. The Cantler plates are also consistent with this.

My particular period of interest is 1809 so if anyone can give me a definitive answer I would be most grateful.

I have only the German edition and pages may be different – about what units are you speaking?

Sorry vonW that was silly of me – I'm referring to the Chevaulegers. Thanks

@1809andallthat

I checked Cantler and Müller / Braun, it confirms your conclusions and is in contrast to the green facings, I will pass your observation on to Markus Stein to see what he has to say on that.

@vW can you also ask Markus as to why the 14th was never in the book particularly around orbats, uniform etc The 14th had, let's say, an interesting time during the 1809 campaign……

I sent him a link to the thread, so let's wait what he has to say.

Hi,

first I muss confess, that the book had been the result of former research and that we had to keep the limit of a given page number – as the Bavarian army is quit complex and it was the greatest of all Rhine Federation armies.

I spoke with Markus Gärtner, who wrote the uniform section and he checked that his information had been first of all the "Brauer plate" as this shows the duration of coats worn by the Bavarian cavalry, given by the famous Bavarian expert and painter Anton Hoffmann. But you're right with the prescribed facings, i.e. from 1803/1804 onwards:

Chevaulegers no. 1 => black facings with red piping
Chevaulegers no. 2 => ponceau-red facings
Chevaulegers no. 3 => ponceau-red facings
Chevaulegers no. 4 => black facings with red piping

I also checked the very comprehensive regimental history for the 6th Bavarian chevaulegers regiment (the formier 4th chevaulegers) and it confirms the change tot the black, red piped, facings from 1803 onwards.

After the reorganization and change of the 1st and 2nd dragoons to 1st/2nd chevaulegers their facings ware ponceau-red but with dark green collars, which got red piping from 14th may 1811.

Markus will check more sources, perhaps he gets more information about this point … and relating to the 14th infantry regiment: don't know why we didn't integrate this regiment into the book.

After all we really think about a "re-publication" and our editor encourages us to think about a larger book (similar to Markus & Peters wonderful Westphalia-book) – but the next project will be Wurttemberg 1805-1815.

Greetings from Berlin
Markus Stein

Many thanks Markus for the comprehensive answer. It is reassuring that I don't need to repaint!

I will look forward to the Wurttemberg book.

Kind regards