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"WAB V.2 Late Roman Imperial Field Army List for Scrutiny" Topic


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Atheling12 Nov 2021 2:11 a.m. PST

With a heady a mix of nostalgia for a WAB event in the Late Spring of next year and an excuse to get another army speed painted for The Analogue Hobbies Painting Challenge (details below) I present to you a 2800 point list for a Late Roman Imperial Field Army.

I would be happy to hear any helpful hints or ideas on changing the composition of the army. Very happy in fact as I have only really played a few games of WAB V.2 and I'm much more used to WAB V.1 and V.1.5.

WAB V.2 Late Roman Imperial Field Army List 2800Pts
CHARACTERS: Up to 25% (up to 700) – 468pts
INFANTRY: At Least 25% (at least 700) -1446pts
CAVALRY: Up to 50% (up to 1400) -
FOEDERATI Up to 33% (up to 933)- 295
ALLEIS AND MERCENARIES: Up to 20% (up to 560)- 411

CHARCATERS:
Magister: 161
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Shield/Thrusting Spear/Horse
Army General
M-7/WS-5/BS-3/S-4/T-4/W-3/I-5/A-2/Ld-9

Army standard Bearer: 109
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Shield/Horse
Army Standard Bearer
M-7/WS-4/BS-3/S-4/T-4/W-2/I-5/A-2/Ld-8

Legate A: 99
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Shield/Thrusting Spear/Horse
M-7/WS-5/BS-3/S-4/T-4/W-2/I-5/A-2/Ld-8

Legate B: 99
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Shield/Throwing Spear/Horse
M-7/WS-5/BS-3/S-4/T-4/W-2/I-5/A-2/Ld-8

INFANTRY:
24 Legionaries: (L/S/M) 375
16 Spear
Hand Weapon/Light Armour/Large Shield/Heavy Throwing Spear/Darts 287
8 Archer
Shieldwall 88
M-3/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-3/A-1/Ld-7

24 Legionaries: (L/S/M) 375
16 Spear
Hand Weapon/Light Armour/Large Shield/Heavy Throwing Spear/Darts 287
8 Archers
Shieldwall 88
M-3/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-3/A-1/Ld-7

24 Legionaries: (L/S/M) 375
16 Spear
Hand Weapon/Light Armour/Large Shield/Heavy Throwing Spear/Darts 287
8 Archers
Shieldwall 88
M-3/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-3/A-1/Ld-7

Auxilia- Elite Palatin: (L/M/S) 321
18 Hand Weapon/Large Shield/Throwing Spear/Darts
Elite Palatini
Light Infantry/Drilled
M-5/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-3/A-1/Ld-8

11 Archers: 88
Bow/Buckler
Light Infantry
M-5/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-3/A-1/Ld-6

11 Archers: 88
Bow/Buckler
Light Infantry
M-5/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-3/A-1/Ld-6

CAVALRY:

FOEDERATII:
10 Heavy Cavalry:(L/S/M) 295
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Shield/Throwing Spear/Javelins
WS-4/BS-3/S-3/T/3W-1/I-3/Ld-7

ALLIES AND MERCENARIES:
12 Goths: (L/S/M) 411
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Buckler/Kontos
Shock Cavalry
WS-4/BS-3/S-3/T/3W-1/I-4/Ld-8

Total = 2796 Points

Augustus13 Nov 2021 11:46 a.m. PST

Seems light on cavalry as the Late Romans were more dependent on that contingent (though, I have my amateur doubts on this as stirrups were supposedly not there yet….), but otherwise seems normal.

What were you looking for?

gavandjosh0213 Nov 2021 6:24 p.m. PST

Thanks. Interesting. hope you don't mind a few questions (to possibly help me organise my own LRs): What time period? What size units are you representing? – do 24 men represent a legion of 1-1.5K men (if so, do you need a Legate C?). Are the archers Aux. Pal. units each of 500 or so men, or parts of one such a unit ? Also, as Augustus suggests, it seems unusual for a field army not to have some Roman cav.

Dexter Ward14 Nov 2021 4:31 a.m. PST

What are Late Roman infantry doing with heavy throwing spears? Pila had gone out of use long before this period; they should have darts (plumbatae) if anything, and probably as many cavalry as infantry to represent a normal force.

Atheling15 Nov 2021 6:28 a.m. PST

Augustus

Seems light on cavalry as the Late Romans were more dependent on that contingent (though, I have my amateur doubts on this as stirrups were supposedly not there yet….), but otherwise seems normal.

The original army did have two units of Equites Scholae (see below this post) but they're really crap in combat compared to the Foederatii Heavy Cav and the Goths. It did have me raising my eyebrows at the time. Do you have any experience with WAB V.2 AoA V.2?

What were you looking for?

Any advice on the army make up for the Late Romans in WAB V.2 AoA V.2 ;>)

gavandjosh02

Interesting. hope you don't mind a few questions (to possibly help me organise my own LRs): What time period?

Strasbourg to Adrianople. Or thereabouts.

What size units are you representing?

It's made up of the choices given in the AoA lists. I do not believe they were designed to be number specific.

it seems unusual for a field army not to have some Roman cav.

To my eyes too but in the lists the Equites Scholae are pants as we say in the UK

Dexter Ward

What are Late Roman infantry doing with heavy throwing spears? Pila had gone out of use long before this period; they should have darts (plumbatae) if anything, and probably as many cavalry as infantry to represent a normal force.

One work. Spiculum. One would assume that is what the list writers had in mind. The consensus of opinion seems to to point to the introduction of the Spiculum in roughly 250AD with it's use dying out by 400AD.

Has anyone got any advice on the WAB AoA Late Roman list please?

Atheling15 Nov 2021 6:31 a.m. PST

List 2:

CHARACTERS: Up to 25% (up to 700) 468pts
INFANTRY: At Least 25% (at least 700) -1102pts
CAVALRY: Up to 50% (up to 1400) 712
FOEDERATI Up to 33% (up to 933)-
ALLEIS AND MERCENARIES: Up to 20% (up to 560pts) 411

CHARCATERS:
Magister: 161
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Shield/Thrusting Spear/Horse
Army General
M-7/WS-5/BS-3/S-4/T-4/W-3/I-5/A-2/Ld-9
Army General 109
ASB:
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Shield/Horse
Army Standard Bearer
M-7/WS-4/BS-3/S-4/T-4/W-2/I-5/A-2/Ld-8
Legate A: 99
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Shield/Thrusting Spear/Horse
M-7/WS-5/BS-3/S-4/T-4/W-2/I-5/A-2/Ld-8
Legate B: 99
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Shield/Throwing Spear/Horse
M-7/WS-5/BS-3/S-4/T-4/W-2/I-5/A-2/Ld-8

INFANTRY:
24 Legionaries: (L/S/M) 375 16 Spear
Hand Weapon/Light Armour/Large Shield/Heavy Throwing Spear/Darts 287
8 Archers 88
Shieldwall
M-3/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-3/A-1/Ld-7

24 Legionaries: (L/S/M) 375 16 Spear
Hand Weapon/Light Armour/Large Shield/Heavy Throwing Spear/Darts 287
8 Archers 88
Shieldwall
M-3/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-3/A-1/Ld-7
Auxilia: (L/M/S) 267
18 Hand Weapon/Large Shield/Throwing Spear/Darts
Light Infantry
M-5/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-3/A-1/Ld-8

10 Archers: (L) 85
Bow/Buckler
Light Infantry
M-5/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-3/A-1/Ld-6

CAVALRY:
11 Equites- Scholae- Ld8/Drilled: (L/S/M) **** 356
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Shield/Throwing Spear/Javelins
Drilled
Legate B Attached (Throwing Spear)
M-7/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-4/A-1/Ld-8

11 Equites- Scholae- Ld8/Drilled: (L/S/M) **** 356
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Shield/Throwing Spear/Javelins
Drilled
M-7/WS-3/BS-3/S-3/T-3/W-1/I-4/A-1/Ld-8

ALLIES AND MERCENARIES:
12 Goths: (L/S/M) 411
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Buckler/Kontos
Shock Cavalry
WS-4/BS-3/S-3/T/3W-1/I-4/Ld-8

Total = 2798 Points

Johnp400018 Nov 2021 9:33 a.m. PST

How many shots do you get for the mixed archer/Legionary units? From more experience with he medieval types I didn't find combined units particularly hard hitting, and prefer missile troops in their own units.

Atheling19 Nov 2021 6:06 a.m. PST

Johnp4000

How many shots do you get for the mixed archer/Legionary units?

Four,but, when combined with the darts they then number 12 which is pretty decent, especially against charging cavalry units.

From more experience with he medieval types I didn't find combined units particularly hard hitting, and prefer missile troops in their own units.

I kind of agree. I do want to maintain a bit of historical accuracy as the army will no doubt find it's way into a few display games as well in the future.

I also find Open Order missile troops very vulnerable when formed.

My Just Add Water Painting and Wargaming Blog:
link

Johnp400020 Nov 2021 6:42 a.m. PST

Thinking about it, with numerous cavalry riding about, missile units will be at risk. That was a better number of shots than I previously thought.

I see from your vlog you have ordered the HYW supplement, I am really looking forward to see what changes they have made, also glad they included Iberian lists.

Atheling22 Nov 2021 4:50 a.m. PST

Johnp4000

Thinking about it, with numerous cavalry riding about, missile units will be at risk. That was a better number of shots than I previously thought.

I've no idea how it will perform but as long as it gives both players a good game I'm happy. What I don't want to happen is for me to get wiped out in a few turns as that's not fin for anyone (with the right attitude towards playing a wargame that is!)


I see from your vlog you have ordered the HYW supplement, I am really looking forward to see what changes they have made, also glad they included Iberian lists.

If you go to Medieval Warrior – Wargaming on YouTube, Nic, who was incvolved on the playtesting, has quite a few HYW vids including this one which gives a few hints as what is to come:
youtube.com/watch?v=8qQor0SU_ZI
And here too:
youtube.com/watch?v=C3cLMsPC6n4

You're spot on with the Iberian lists being included. They should be quite interesting indeed!

My Just Add Water Painting and Wargaming Blog:
link

Atheling25 Nov 2021 4:03 a.m. PST

So, has anyone got any comments regarding using Warhammer Ancient Battles V.2 ands the second list I have posted?

Maybe some tactical hints?

My Just Add Water Painting and Wargaming Blog:
link

Atheling25 Nov 2021 7:33 a.m. PST

Sorry, I meant to say please.

My Just Add Water Painting and Wargaming Blog:
link

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