Korvessa | 10 Nov 2021 6:46 p.m. PST |
In this case the British – but suspect all are the same in this respect. Came across this tory: link About A British tank gunner. On his first day in combat he took out 3 Tigers with 5 shots from his firefly. Including the famous Wittman. He knocked out a 4th tank later that day before his tank was knocked out. The army being the army – in his new crew he was a radio operator and never fired his gun again. |
Legion 4 | 10 Nov 2021 8:16 p.m. PST |
|
Artilleryman | 11 Nov 2021 2:08 a.m. PST |
Square pegs and round holes … It is a part of British military doctrine. |
Nine pound round | 11 Nov 2021 5:15 a.m. PST |
The flip side of that scenario has a far less happy ending- and that happens, too. Nature of the beast, I suppose. |
robert piepenbrink | 11 Nov 2021 8:46 a.m. PST |
There was an old "Amos 'n Andy" episode in which the laid back Andy is taking an aptitude test involving pegs and holes. The man beside him is rapidly matching peg to hole. Andy takes the square peg, tries twice to get it in the round hole--and then gets out a whittling knife. I often thought of him as I coped with Milpercen. |
Big Red | 11 Nov 2021 9:49 a.m. PST |
Met a fellow at work that was a USN WW2 veteran. When in gunnery school for AA gunners he was the best marksman in the class. The trainers said that he used too much ammo when shooting down all the practice models so they made him a loader instead. When I was in the USN, the surest way to get the duty assignment that you wanted was to choose the given options in reverse order of preference. |
Artilleryman | 11 Nov 2021 11:11 a.m. PST |
There was an inter-unit competition in the British Army part of which was an ambush scenario stand. Both sides used laser target engagement systems (SAWES) so it was going to be quite realistic. Each team was ambushed and their reactions and tactics assessed by the umpires. Most lost a lot of their number with some fighting through and others just going to pieces. Then one team went through and not only 'killed' all the ambushers but also suffered no casualties. The umpires were going to mark them down as their tactics were not 'by the book'. Fortunately a saner senior officer prevailed and that team was given full marks and won that stand. I make no comment … |
Nine pound round | 11 Nov 2021 11:34 a.m. PST |
To paraphrase Churchill, armies will generally do the right thing- after they've tried all the other alternatives. |
bobspruster | 12 Nov 2021 2:11 a.m. PST |
My favorite quote from Lloyd George:"No one thing and no one person could have prevented the collapse of the Turk in both Mesopotamia and Palestine in 1916 except our own general staff." |
Nine pound round | 12 Nov 2021 5:21 a.m. PST |
Characteristically witty, and characteristically unfair – almost as funny as what he said about Haig: "Brilliant- to the top of his boots." And almost as unfair. Lloyd George is a fascinating character, and perhaps the most essential British leader of the war- but like Churchill, it's a struggle to unravel his essential contributions from his serious mistakes. |
ScottWashburn | 12 Nov 2021 6:30 a.m. PST |
My dad was a trained pilot before the war. After Pearl Harbor he tried to enlist in the Air Corps, but because he worked as a tool-maker (a highly specialized job) at an aircraft factory, he was sent back to his job. In 1945 the government didn't need any more of the planes his factory made and he was drafted--into the infantry! |
79thPA | 12 Nov 2021 10:25 a.m. PST |
I sometimes look at the commissioning postings for the local ROTC detachment and the branch posting rarely has anything to do with the degree field. Needs of the service and all of that. |
Legion 4 | 13 Nov 2021 7:44 a.m. PST |
We learned from DAY 1 … the needs of the Army/Military comes first. |
Ed Mohrmann | 13 Nov 2021 9:17 a.m. PST |
I remember well that standard phrase from the enlistment 'contract': "…subject to the needs and exigencies of the Government." Often wondered if those who were drafted (not voluntarily enlisted) had the same boilerplate. |
Legion 4 | 13 Nov 2021 2:39 p.m. PST |
I'd think so … Bottom line … when you sign the line, i.e. "You take the King's coin, you do the King's bidding … " |
Nine pound round | 15 Nov 2021 6:46 a.m. PST |
I could live with, "Mission first, people second." That's what it was, anyway. What drove me crazy was having to say, "Mission first, people ALWAYS" when I knew it wasn't true. |
Legion 4 | 15 Nov 2021 10:02 a.m. PST |
Yes I remember "Mission first, people Always" … But yes sometimes to get the mission, etc. done. That is always not possible. |
Big Red | 16 Nov 2021 9:35 a.m. PST |
To me, it's not doing the "King's" bidding that is the issue, it's the often illogical and self defeating bid and the inability to initiate any all too obvious course correction that can cause stress and confusion. |
Legion 4 | 16 Nov 2021 12:12 p.m. PST |
Sounds about right … E.g. Vietnam, Somali and more recently A'stan. My experience as a Rifle Plt Ldr, Mech Co. Cdr, etc. back in '80s, the POTUS, JCS, etc. didn't ask my opinion on … well … anything ! 😁 🤩 But we still got paid !!! 😎 |
green beanie | 17 Nov 2021 9:12 a.m. PST |
Back in 1975 I enlisted in the US Army Special Forces. I passed all the physical testing, including Airborne, and then the written tests. I passed and was sent off for training. One of the guys I was with did not pass the Airborne physical and was told he would be going into the Infantry as a 11 Bravo (Better known back then as 11 Bullet Catcher). Now this was the first of the all volunteer Army after Vietnam, so this guy did not wish to go into the infantry and told them if it was a volunteer Army, he would pick his assignment and the Army basically told him volunteer or not he would go into the infantry and he told them, "Oh, I just remembered. I signed my enlistment papers in blue ink and not black ink as required. He was let out of his enlistment and back into the world on a blue ink signature. Makes you wonder. |
Mserafin | 18 Nov 2021 9:29 a.m. PST |
IIRC, the Royal Tank Regiment looked up this former gunner/radioman and brought him down to Bovington for a chat. At one point they let him try out a Challenger and he became the oldest person to qualify as a gunner on said vehicle. |