"How Strong is the US Military today?" Topic

By the way, I am not talking about vaccines, which are part of mission readiness.

@Legion 4 – here's a link to the Wikipedia article on the AMF(L) which includes a list of all the exercises in which it was involved:

link

@Tortorella – a concern of mine is that 'at home' we need to create a 'zero tolerance' 'safe' work place (i.e., people need to be protected from hearing a word they don't like, having someone roll their eyes at them, etc.) but deployed they'll be facing extreme violence. Will this make people more or less psychologically prepared for that violence? We know that PTSD is big problem – a friend of mine is a psychologist in charge of treatment of PSTD – primarily people returning from combat. Whatever happened to making people resilient?

I was thinking more of PC type training, not mission, tactical, weapons. I was always cynical, rightly or wrongly, of anything that seemed like a PC distraction along the lines of what Irish Marine was talking about and looked for ways to steer clear,

Fortunately when I was on Active Duty and even the USAR. I can't remember having to deal with any PC stuff. Around Christmas time/the Holidays we'd hear and/or have to give a suicide prevention "talk". As at that time of year, those types of deaths go up in the military, etc. None of the units I was in ever had any of those type of deaths, fortunately.

I know during Thanksgiving and Christmas the mess halls would really make us a feast. The officers would have to wear our dress blues. I had to get wine for the senior officers , etc. Even in the ROK the guys could bring their Korean galpals from the village. Which was against the UCMJ, etc. But no one really cared.

But no PC, woke, etc., stuff like today … Thank the Gods !!!!

Your training objectives were obviously critical, and I wondered whether Irish Marine has hit upon a fundamental change of focus, and whether that is actually distracting from mission readiness? . I am not taking him literally,.It sounds like you were not much involved in PC trainings, but per Irish Marine they are now a major focus.

Very much so … we had Mission Essential Task List[METL], Skill Qual Training [SQT] tasks for the EMs, mostly give by the Squad NCOs. On the weapons qual ranges we had to have concurrent training going on while the troops awaited their time on the firing line, etc., etc.

Even Officers' Professional Development[OPD]Classes. Given by the officers in the unit usually. And was generally about history/lessons learned, etc. I remember briefing the WWII North Africa Campaign.

Officers went to Combined Arms Services Staff School. Covering many topics, including history, terrain walks, etc., etc.

I'd think the USMC would be similar. As I was grad of USMC/USN Basic Amphib Training, when a 1LT in the 101. At Norfolk NAB, IIRC. And ran ops with USMC a number of times on different FTXs, etc.

By the way, I am not talking about vaccines, which are part of mission readiness.

Back then no one questioned vaccines, etc. We just all went to the Medics as a unit, they processed us thru like cattle … 🐮

Legion 4 – here's a link to the Wikipedia article on the AMF(L) which includes a list of all the exercises in which it was involved:

Thanks ! Will check out ! Sound interesting !

We know that PTSD is big problem

The VA is very involved in this. It is very important to keep our troops alive. Whether on active duty, ETS'd etc.

Legion your training and readiness sound professional and comprehensive. I have always figured that we do this better than anybody. I hope Irish Marine is wrong.

PTSD is complex. Glad the VA is on it. It is likely more widespread than people know, not just in the military, but in law enforcement as well. These people are hurting, and we need to keep helping and working on getting better at diagnosis and treatment.

Another BTW, I recently heard that Covid was the leading cause of death among police officers last year. It's just one more shot to go with all the others. Remember Washinton's army and the small pox vaccine.

Shadoe, I think you are right. I am not sure if there are better ways to make people resilient now than there used to be. If you look at Legion's training, I think the answer is there.

There was always PTSD. My Dad, a combat veteran, told me some things, but only near the end of his life. I don't know that they prepared him mentally to get through it except by imposing the kind of regimen, competence, and team commitment that Legion has described.

I suspect in many/most ways, much of our military is far weaker than it used to be, due to overly long deployments overseas, which really kicked off in the early 1990s with kicking Iraq out of Kuwait. The issue was significantly exacerbated with Clinton's deployment (TMP 10 year rule here) of our forces to Bosnia, followed by GW II.

Then of course, the overly long commitments to Afghanistan and Iraq.

Many of our aircraft and naval vessels are very old and worn out, and sadly efforts to replace them in many cases have been failures, or at best, overly costly purchases.

20 years later, the F-35 is just now becoming operational, and the LCS and Zumwalt vessels appear to be total failures.

Now, political correctness has infected our military chain of command more virulently than the Covid-19 virus, and is wreaking havoc there, which WILL have a very negative affect on our combat readiness.

Our military should focus totally on winning wars, since our track record on that since the end of WWII IS abysmal. Getting side-tracked on anything else presents a clear and present danger to our national security, especially if we ever get engaged again in a war against enemies better equipped than medieval era fighters carrying rifles, riding on mopeds and wearing sandals, and whom we still managed to lose to.

Right now, we are poorly equipped to combat near-peer enemies in far off lands in support of our own interests or those of our allies.

Gutting our energy sector, which IS the lifeblood of our economy, industry, and military forces makes our country dependent upon OPEC and Russia once again, which further increases our strategic weakness.

Legion your training and readiness sound professional and comprehensive. I have always figured that we do this better than anybody. I hope Irish Marine is wrong.

Yes, that is what we strived for. We took it very seriously …

In the 101 we were part of the 18th ABN Corps/RDF.

In the ROK I was with a forward deployed Mech Bn, either on the DMZ or just behind it by a few miles.

Back at Benning, I was assigned to the separate Mech Hvy Bde that also war part of the 18th ABN Corps/RDF.

So my experience was that we were always training to get deployed to go to war, etc., etc. … No time for any PC, woke 🐴💩, etc.

But that was in the '80s. However … Today I'm afraid Irish Marine may be correct. Woke, CRT, equity, diversity, inclusion, etc., takes time away from war fighting skills. But what do I know ?

there was always PTSD. My Dad, a combat veteran, told me some things, but only near the end of his life.

Yes, my Father was also a WWII Vet. With the 90ID as an Inf SGT. He rarely mentioned things to me. But certainly was not happy with me wanting to go into the Infantry then the 101. He knew how bad war was … did not want me to possibly experience such horror. But he did support me, regardless He having Silver & Bronze Stars, plus a Purple Heart, "he saw the elephant". I don't know if he ever suffered from PTSD. If so I never saw any of it.

My Mom was a "Rosy the Riveter" and made P-39 parts.

I don't know that they prepared him mentally to get through it except by imposing the kind of regimen, competence, and team commitment that Legion has described.

Again IMO that is why they are called "the greatest generation". My Father & Mother born here, both having parents that came over "from the old country", around 1905. Then lived thru the Great Depression. From that Generation came some pretty hard scrabble, capable, very tough stock. Like many from that time period. As our Fathers, etc.

I suspect in many/most ways, much of our military is far weaker than it used to be, due to overly long deployments overseas, which really kicked off in the early 1990s with kicking Iraq out of Kuwait. The issue was significantly exacerbated with Clinton's deployment (TMP 10 year rule here) of our forces to Bosnia, followed by GW II.

Then of course, the overly long commitments to Afghanistan and Iraq.

Short answer … YES … very much so …
But it seems now the combat training and readiness maybe secondary. To woke, PC, etc., crap !

I can almost hear some of my NCOs say what a waste of time this sort of thing this type of "woke training" would be. I.e., "Sir … WDF ! We all got more important stuff to do ! Than this 'n horse ! "

I'd have to agree … As I have said before, many of my troops, NCOs, and fellow officers were Black or Hispanic. Some very close friends in the lot from the Officer Corps, etc.

If you look at Legion's training, I think the answer is there.

As my NCOs and even my troops would say, "They know the deal!" … when it came to soldiering, etc.

Yes, Legion, this is what I was saying before about training that does not help you do your job. A waste…

My Dad was a ball turret gunner in a B-17, 99th Bomb Group, 36 missions. My TMP name is the name of his airfield. He seemed okay as far as PTSD. But a couple of things he told me near the end of his life were things you don't forget. We never went to see a war movie when I was growing up.

I can tell RandomIdiot, you probably never served a day in your life have you. I never mentioned Trump but you did, so your letting Trump live rent free in your head. Life and cold hard facts don't care about liberal thoughts and ideals, just like the enemy not caring about them either. And this also answers another post, Why the US loses wars. You mentioned how the Generals told Trump to go screw himself, you mean the same ones who said they would call the Chinese and give them a heads up if we were going to attack them, THOSE GENERALS??

I don't care what Fox News, etc. say. In fact, I typically don't give much credence any news media reports until after I've verified sources. For any report for which I know the background I've always – and I do mean always – have found numerous errors. I don't necessarily think the errors are always intentional – although each media source will have it's political philosophy. Some errors are just due to insufficient resources – people, time, etc.

However, from personal experience – from just last week – shows that there is something in the Irish Marine's comments. In a virtual (week-long) meeting, a participant took offence to a word used by another participant – not a slur or insult but a word used as an example of a type traumatic experience. It ended up being treated as an harassment incident endangering the offended person's workplace 'safety'. The resolution of the incident involved several hours for 6-8 professionals and resulted in the offending person being asked to withdraw from the remainder of meeting.

FYI – here's a link to our official harassment and violence continuum of negative behaviours. Eyerolls find their place in the matrix along with armed assault.

link

In such an environment inevitably one must have a outward face that resembles one matching those from photos of the old Soviet Politburo.

My Dad was a ball turret gunner in a B-17, 99th Bomb Group, 36 missions. My TMP name is the name of his airfield. He seemed okay as far as PTSD. But a couple of things he told me near the end of his life were things you don't forget.

He did his duty. And deserves our thanks for that and more … They had a real mission and no time for the waste of time training like we see today. Thank him for me and the members of the Military Officers Assoc. of America. We understand … and get it more than most. May he RIP …

Your training objectives were obviously critical,

Yes I talked all about this. How important training the military to go to war is. If I was still a Plt Ldr or Co. Cdr I'd think woke, CRT, inclusive, diversity, etc., training would be a waste time. If one reads my posts, I do go into detail about being trained for and training war fighting skills. Not woke, PC, etc. Bull … Foolish waste of time on subjects like this could cost lives in a conflict.

On active duty, I can only think of one or two time politics even came up. We took the oath and really had more important things to do. E.g. in the jungles of Panama, the ROK DMZ, the West/East German border, etc. When you are in those places and others like those … who is POTUS was not a concern.

I for one, am thankful that the leaders of the U.S military put their adherence to the U.S constitution above allegiance to a particular leader.

We in the military take an oath to follow the orders of the POTUS. I took it and gave as a US ARMY Officer. Anyone who served would know about our oath. We are required to follow all legal orders of the POTUS and the officers appointed above us. I didn't vote when I was in the Army, '79-'90. We all took the oath. So whether we voted for the POTUS or not. We were required to follow his legal orders.

Worth repeating :

I can tell RandomIdiot, you probably never served a day in your life have you. I never mentioned Trump but you did, so your letting Trump live rent free in your head. Life and cold hard facts don't care about liberal thoughts and ideals, just like the enemy not caring about them either. And this also answers another post, Why the US loses wars. You mentioned how the Generals told Trump to go screw himself, you mean the same ones who said they would call the Chinese and give them a heads up if we were going to attack them, THOSE GENERALS??

Irish Marine +10 …

However, from personal experience – from just last week – shows that there is something in the Irish Marine's comments. In a virtual (week-long) meeting, a participant took offence to a word used by another participant – not a slur or insult but a word used as an example of a type traumatic experience. It ended up being treated as an harassment incident endangering the offended person's workplace 'safety'. The resolution of the incident involved several hours for 6-8 professionals and resulted in the offending person being asked to withdraw from the remainder of meeting.

Madness shadoe … just madness … woke, CRT, etc., crap, IMO. The tail is wagging the dog …

@Legion 4,

Indeed….

Here is our current defence policy – Chapter 5 articulates the vision for the roles for our armed forces:

link

Make your own judgement.

In contrast here is a speech by Putin from 21 Oct, Valdai Discussion Club:

link

Make of that what you will, but at the very least we should pay attention when our enemies suggest that we go right ahead with our current path – from Putin's speech:

The advocates of so-called ‘social progress' believe they are introducing humanity to some kind of a new and better consciousness. Godspeed, hoist the flags as we say, go right ahead.

Putin goes on from that sentence with:

The only thing that I want to say now is that their prescriptions are not new at all. It may come as a surprise to some people, but Russia has been there already. After the 1917 revolution, the Bolsheviks, relying on the dogmas of Marx and Engels, also said that they would change existing ways and customs and not just political and economic ones, but the very notion of human morality and the foundations of a healthy society. The destruction of age-old values, religion and relations between people, up to and including the total rejection of family (we had that, too), encouragement to inform on loved ones – all this was proclaimed progress and, by the way, was widely supported around the world back then and was quite fashionable, same as today. By the way, the Bolsheviks were absolutely intolerant of opinions other than theirs.

OUCH!

He says this about imposing values on other people:

Any attempts to force one's values on others with an uncertain and unpredictable outcome can only further complicate a dramatic situation and usually produce the opposite reaction and an opposite from the intended result.

We only have to think about our recent nation-building activities for evidence of that. Yet our defence policy discusses 'promoting' our values abroad. For sure, there's always some of that, but…we do need to be aware of producing the opposite result.

I provide the link to Putin's speech not necessarily as an endorsement but with the principle that we should pay attention to what our enemies are actually saying and not to our media's reports of what they said.

Random – Yes Irish Marine is a little over top with the right wing media buzz. I think it is not accurate to say the the "US military is not interested in combat". But we dont want to miss the forest for the trees. His point about training priorities and where they are headed is very concerning.

Thank you Legion. Our parents generation was one for the ages.

I am grateful for everyone who serves or has served. The leadership issues have been the big challenge in our lifetimes, I think. We don't often get to understand the mission the way our parents did.

It's not Right wing media buzz, I've been out for a few years but I still have friends serving and a lot of it is from what I hear from them.

Okay. And I am not saying you are wrong about the priorities, as I keep saying. It's a big concern.

Are people really getting kicked out for not get a Covid shot after all the other shots they get?

Yes. It's insane, if it was a true deadly pandemic like the powers that be claim, nothing would be kept off the table; like ivermectin or other drugs that people have used to great success.

Indeed….

Well looks like much of NATO is downsizing. Too expensive to have a well armed combat ready military. Until you need it …

But as I see it, short answer … Don't trust Putin or Xi, regardless of what they say or do. Putin is "former" KGB. Xi is a student of Sun Tzu.

At G20 today, IIRC, neither showed up. They are not interested in going Green, climate change, etc. No matter what games they play. E.g. the Chicoms are building coal burning steel mills. Hmmm ?

With the Chicoms being 20% of the planet, if they don't go Green, it is almost a waste of time for the rest of the world. Does anyone think Putin is going Green ?

Once again they are playing Chess or Go. We are playing pastel colored checkers with pics of 🦄s,🌈s,& 🍭s on them …

If I say more … I'll get DH'd … 'nuff said …

Our parents generation was one for the ages.

Yes and so few know or understand what they did … We may never see the likes of them again …

I am grateful for everyone who serves or has served. The leadership issues have been the big challenge in our lifetimes, I think. We don't often get to understand the mission the way our parents did.

Yes, again few get that. Weak leadership being key. 'nuff said …

I've been out for a few years but I still have friends serving and a lot of it is from what I hear from them.

I have heard similar … The current leadership elected & appointed really don't know what damage they are doing, IMO … And if they do, that makes it much worse.

Yes. It's insane, if it was a true deadly pandemic like the powers that be claim, nothing would be kept off the table;

A big topic, but yes do I agree. Of course I'm no Doctor or medic and don't play one on TV. All could/should have been handled better … a lot better …

That is being said about a lot things recently …

It is a big topic. I would not want us to get hit while we are substantially infected aboard ship or at bases. Even a mild case reduces functioning and the resources needed to handle infected people are not insubstantial. Instead of dealing with treating large numbers, take it out of play.

The leading cause of death for cops last year and long haul Covid wrecks your life.

So why is it an issue? get the vax, along with all the other vaccines you get. Way easier than treating it later and we don't lose anyone.

At G20 today, IIRC, neither showed up. They are not interested in going Green, climate change, etc. No matter what games they play. E.g. the Chicoms are building coal burning steel mills. Hmmm ?

With the Chicoms being 20% of the planet, if they don't go Green, it is almost a waste of time for the rest of the world. Does anyone think Putin is going Green ?

The G20 meetings are a waste of time. Global environmental conferences are a waste of time and carbon. Nothing they do is ever really binding and there's so much creative accounting involved it's all a joke. E.g. Australia looked like it was making progress except they were actually increasing emissions whilst counting unused land as a form of emission reduction.

The first environmental conference was held in 1979 and the situation just got worse and worse. The G20 represent big business and the consumer way of life. Their main goal is to not impact fossil fuel company's profits too much. Indeed Australia's "Emission Reduction" minister openly said he was going to COP26 to sell fossil fuels!

As for greening, I doubt Russia cares. China does have a substantial environmental initiatives but I suspect a lot of these are driven by other concerns such as energy independence.

Oh and Chinese account for 25% of all carbon emissions.

Humans will just burn the planet up and then adapt and continue living in a wasteland. We are a very adaptable parasite species.

Tortella … +1 … But today everything has to be a "problem", etc., once the politicians and media gets a hold of it … It's a crisis. In some cases create a crisis to cover up the previous ones. Never let a good crisis go to waste I've heard them say. Seems most of which they created themselves. But that is another topic.

IMO mostly it comes down to leadership. But as we see there is little of that along the Potomac these days …

ardo +1

The G20 meetings are a waste of time.

Bingo ! Totally agree with your post …

I can think of a particular world leader who has crisis upon crisis back home. Those should be the priority. It seems to me. With all the negatives that are going on back home. It's like the CPT of the Titanic, deciding the curtains in all the rooms need to changed. Because he does not like the color. As ice water floods the ship. 🚢