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"US asks Russia for a military base or two" Topic


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arealdeadone27 Sep 2021 9:55 p.m. PST

Miley asks Russian commander, Valery Gerasimov, if Putin's offer of bases in central Asia still stands.


link

link

Striker27 Sep 2021 11:18 p.m. PST

So Russia tells the neighbors not to cooperate with the US but then a story of how the US and Russia are working together? Sounds like Miley and crew are getting the "who's on first" treatment and have no idea they shouldn't be playing the game when they don't understand it.

Barin128 Sep 2021 1:58 a.m. PST

providing that we've just seen a new series of sanctions against Russia and its officials (including our current PM) I guess it is all for the show.
I don't see that we're allowing USA a footprint in Central Asia. We have enough of Turkey there and Caucasus already.

SBminisguy28 Sep 2021 8:07 a.m. PST

Striker+1

Legion 428 Sep 2021 10:01 a.m. PST

Putin & his boys already said the USA will not be allowed to use any former USSR/Russian states. No sure how that would work either way. I saw that on the news a few weeks back.

So I don't think that will happen anytime soon …

See Putin is not the USA's friend … AFAIK … 🤔

Thresher0128 Sep 2021 7:15 p.m. PST

Yea, that's a "brilliant" idea.

Still batting 1,000% in the Sec. Gates meaning I see.

Actually Barin, we are letting you guys complete your little pipeline to Europe, AND we gutter ours, so clearly we are doing things to "make nice"

+10 Striker.

Barin129 Sep 2021 1:45 a.m. PST

Thresher, three things with NS-2
- you couldn't risk relations with EC and especially Germany, who is benefitting from this pipe with current state of things
- you couldn't really do anything else apart of direct military intervention to stop it anyway
- and US promises to supply Europe with "freedom gas" LPG never going to work as, first, you don't have the capacity and second, all of your LPG is not saving Europe from record prices, but moves to Asia where they can pay even more. Nothing personal, just business.
And….being nice doesn't mean stoppig the threats for a day, it is actually…doing something nice. This is how diplomacy works.

Thresher0129 Sep 2021 8:29 a.m. PST

Actually, we could "risk" relations with Germany, and we should have over the pipeline. We can and have imposed sanctions over issues like this.

We CAN do more, e.g. additional sanctions, etc., but chose not too.

You are correct that we couldn't provide endless surplus LPG to Europe, though we could provide some, in order to act as a relief valve for the EU, in order to prevent inordinate price spikes. Supply and Demand economics works.

Alas, we are gutting our energy industry after becoming energy independent for the first time in our nation's history, and becoming an energy exporter. Hopefully, in a little more than three years from now, we will once again revert to that status, and again become the largest energy producer on the planet.

Striker29 Sep 2021 3:25 p.m. PST

Keeping a foot on Russia's neck (or trying to) is doing nothing but upping antagonisms. Russia is building weapons and deploying troops regardless so if that's a US goal it has failed. Let Europe deal with Russia and it's fuel. If they want to make those deals that's their problem, if any. The US needs to recognize the Russian's goals and work with them where they can. We bend over backwards for the PRC who have been blatant about their desires (re:Pacific & US+allies). Europe, the US, and Russia have interests that align and we should be pushing on those instead of finding ways to keep poking. Not sure what the whole push to recreate the Russian boogeyman is about but it's high time to end it.

Legion 429 Sep 2021 4:31 p.m. PST

Not sure what the whole push to recreate the Russian boogeyman is about but it's high time to end it.
Ask Putin … But as we know the PRC/CCP is the real threat.

But why do you think Putin won't let us use those former Soviet territories that border A'stan ?

Simple IMO … he wants to get his/Russia's piece of the action of all those rare earth metals etc., in A'stan. Will have a harder time doing that if we keep blowing up the Taliban, AQ, etc., from a former Soviet state(s). He, like the PRC/CCP wants to cut a deal with the Taliban. Putin can't do that if the US/NATO is flying recon & strike ops from those former Russian states. The Taliban will probably tell him, get US/NATO out of those states. And they will deal.

And let there be no doubt. We will have to keep our eyes on the Taliban allowing AQ to plot to attack the infidels in the West. ISIS too regardless they and the Talis & AQ are their enemies …

arealdeadone29 Sep 2021 6:07 p.m. PST

But why do you think Putin won't let us use those former Soviet territories that border A'stan ?

Same reason he won't let Georgia and Ukraine join NAT0. It's encirclement of Russia.

Literally everything the Americans do is to try to undermine Russia. A core yet unspoken component of modern American existential ideology is Russia is bad and needs to be destroyed/undermined.

Russia is the forever enemy.

Chinese tanks could be storming along Interstates 40 & 80 and armed Chinese troops could be taking selifes in front of the Grand Canyon and Mount Rushmore and the US government would still be thinking of ways to undermine the Russians.

Cuprum229 Sep 2021 6:18 p.m. PST

Another factor. Thanks to the constant and continuous, over the past thirty years, the invasion of the West into the sphere of traditional vital interests of Russia, now Russia is more interested in good relations with China than with the West. And China is unlikely to be pleased with the emergence of American military bases in Central Asia. I do not see any advantages from the appearance of such military bases for Russia …
As for the Taliban, there are hopes that the production of heroin in Afghanistan will drop sharply, as was the case under their previous rule. It's already nice.

Striker29 Sep 2021 10:48 p.m. PST

But why do you think Putin won't let us use those former Soviet territories that border A'stan?

For the same reason we would have issues with Chinese troops based in Central America. Just the idea of some jets to Venezuela was a major problem. The Chinese won't like those bases either. Of course Russia, China, Pakistan, and anyone else is going to deal with the Taliban: why send troops when you can just pay some cash and get the same thing? Hey the US is shelling out $64 USDmil to them (ya they say it will go to NGOs directly, sure) so the US is dealing also.

Thresher0101 Oct 2021 11:16 p.m. PST

"Literally everything the Americans do is to try to undermine Russia. A core yet unspoken component of modern American existential ideology is Russia is bad and needs to be destroyed/undermined.

Russia is the forever enemy".

Surprisingly, I can't say I disagree with any of the above.

Makes perfect sense when dealing with your enemy, or enemies.

I do note that we were "allies" in WWII, though I think Patton was right about Russia, and we should have teamed up with the remaining Germans after the end of WWII to "clean house", so to speak. A missed opportunity which would have saved trillions in not having to "fight" the Cold War, afterwards.

Even better would have been to NOT provide aid to Russian/Soviet Union during WWII, let Germany defeat them, and then take out Germany in turn, afterwards.

Stalin is really responsible for escalating the Cold War, after the end of WWII, and ending our alliance.

We could have "ended" the Soviet Union/Russia post-WWII, before they developed the atomic bomb and nuclear weapons, and we even had plans to do so, but we didn't.

Perhaps Putin should reflect on that.

arealdeadone01 Oct 2021 11:32 p.m. PST

Thresher your hatred of Russians is really really strong.

Andy ONeill02 Oct 2021 2:00 a.m. PST

Hate breeds hate.
Not that Putin is exactly mister nice guy.

Thresher0102 Oct 2021 7:12 a.m. PST

I don't hate Russians ardo (but again, nice try at creating another false narrative), but do despise much/most of their leadership.

I do admire how well Putin has lead Russia, and what a strong leader he is, though of course he is a ruthless one too, known world-wide for eliminating his enemies by any and all means necessary.

Imagine how much better the world could have been, if the Cold War hadn't kicked off in earnest, and if everyone around the globe hadn't had to spend so much of their money on hordes of troops, as well as conventional and nuclear weapons.

If the Russians had been a bit more friendly to their Westeren "allies" who helped save them from the Nazis, the world could have and would have been a much better place.

Legion 402 Oct 2021 7:36 a.m. PST

Chinese tanks could be storming along Interstates 40 & 80 and armed Chinese troops could be taking selifes in front of the Grand Canyon and Mount Rushmore and the US government would still be thinking of ways to undermine the Russians.
Wasn't that a movie ? "Red Dawn" 1 & 2 ?

Regardless it is clear that the PRC/CCP is the bigger, clear & present danger/threat. But Putin seems to like to make sure the USA does not forget about him, etc. And vis versa … It is interesting that many, albeit not all, cyberattacks come from Putin's Russia … yes ? 🤔

We can't forget about Putin's Russia, one can't underestimate your opponent. Maybe with the pipeline from Russia to Germany becoming a reality, he and his cronies might ease up on US cyberattacks, etc. ? 😆🤣🤣

'nuff said … 🤫

arealdeadone02 Oct 2021 4:16 p.m. PST

Thresher, commies were nice to western Allies.

Stalin actually abandoned the Italian and afresh communists in exchange for Western acknowledgement of Soviet control of eastern Europe.

Cold War was always going to happen. The American hatred of Communism doesn't start with Soviet Union, it starts with US national guard/militias and police brutality and even massacres of protesting American workers in the 19th century.

Note the Americans intervened in Russia in 1919 to try to stop Communist takeover.

arealdeadone02 Oct 2021 4:17 p.m. PST

Legion,USA made modern Russia an enemy. They played ball in the 1980s and your country tried to turn them into a third world state whilst heaping humiliation after humiliation upon them.

Legion 402 Oct 2021 4:30 p.m. PST

Well again … I don't see it that way … I think behind the "red" curtain. There were Putin and his like. Having never got over the USSR break up. Like a jilted lover … he/they just couldn't get over it.

arealdeadone03 Oct 2021 4:25 p.m. PST

Legion,

I've many times posted information on how the US and US dominated international agencies such as IMF and World Bank tried to dismantle Russia and turn it into an agrarian state (basically third world country).

And I've also noted that many diplomatic/military actions the US undertook were anti-Russian eg trying to neutralise Russian nuclear deterrent and NATO expansion.


How would you feel if China or Russia tried hard to turn USA into a third world agrarian state whilst expanding their military reach into Canada and Mexico?

Legion 403 Oct 2021 4:37 p.m. PST

I've many times posted information on how the US and US dominated international agencies such as IMF and World Bank tried to dismantle Russia and turn it into an agrarian state (basically third world country).
Sounds good to me…

And I've also noted that many diplomatic/military actions the US undertook were anti-Russian eg trying to neutralise Russian nuclear deterrent and NATO expansion.
You say that like it's a bad thing …

How would you feel if China or Russia tried hard to turn USA into a third world agrarian state
The USA is turning into a 3d World Socialist failing state with out the PRC/CCP and/or Putin's help.


whilst expanding their military reach into Canada and Mexico?
I saw the movie … "Wolverines" !!!!!!

To quote forper23 on another thread :

Your anti-American extremism overpowers you ability to think logically and assess recent history fairly, as it happened.

arealdeadone03 Oct 2021 5:19 p.m. PST

Sounds good to me…

So like thresher, you have an irrational hatred of Russia.

The USA is turning into a 3d World Socialist failing state with out the PRC/CCP and/or Putin's help.

I would argue it's declining social democracy that is contributing to US decline. Rampant neoliberal capitalism since Reagan has damaged America's industry, economy, equality, and living standards.


Oh and America didn't want Russia to be a socialist agrarian/resource exporting 3rd world state. It wanted Russia to be dominated by American companies ie selling off all that valuable fossil fuel industry to the Americans.

Russians of course didn't want to play ball and the whole thing backfired on the Americans when future Russian oligarchs brought all those resources and assets for next to nothing.

And then Putin reigned in the oligarchs and effectively nationalised the energy industry.

So instead of Chevron and Exxon controlling and profiting from Russian oil and natural gas, it is the Russians themselves.


Hence one of the reasons the Americans are so offended at the new Nordstream pipelines.

And ironically I suspect if the US energy companies had got a chunk of the Russian energy pie in those early days in the 1990s the US government would be supporting the pipelines.

Barin104 Oct 2021 3:36 a.m. PST

We don't have the information our leaders know, but from following the situation in the industry, US companies are still doing the business, and most of it is in Oil&Gas.

Exxon is still a co-owwner of one of Sakhalin gas projects, UOP and McDermott are still building gas plants and refineries, but of course they don't own them, and Boeing still gets most of its titanium from Russia.

I guess if North Stream-2 is forced to close, we'll be seeing problems for american companies, making their operation impossible.

All these anti-pipeline sanctions are more about business, as most of the stuff around the globe.

Your former POTUS campaign was supported by local companies, who were planning to invest in shale gas infrasctructure and they wanted to have access to more markets at higher price, as natural gas prices at that time were quite low.
Rеducing supply by demonising Russia (you know, that first oil and gas pipes were built at the height of Cold War, right?) could benefit gas producers in USA, contractors, involved in infrastructure design and building, shipbuilding companies making huge LNG tankers, etc.
In current situation it is clear, that recent president campaign was financed by many "green" companies, therefore different approach.
Also, you can't force your LNG suppliers to save Europe from 1000 USD/1000 m3 of natural gas prices, as they can get better profit selling gas to Asia (cough-cough-evil-China), so you would leave Europe with no gas at all….

Legion 404 Oct 2021 9:13 a.m. PST

So like thresher, you have an irrational hatred of Russia.
No not Russia in general, just some of their leadership. As with the PRC/CCP and yes even some of my country's own politicos …

BTW … I have no problem with Barin1 … sounds like a pretty good guy. I mean for a Russkie … 🤫🤭😏 wink

We don't have the information our leaders know,
Bingo !!!!

Can't say this in all cases … but the USA is primarily a Capitalist nation. 🤑 However, we may be not be able to say that anymore in some situations. At least maybe in the near future. …

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