"Austin Bay on General Milley" Topic

Milley said his father was at Iwo. Not 'the Boys" I thought he answered the partisan guy pretty well on this, and I did not hear any self-serving outrage coming back at him. In fact, it got pretty quiet.

I am not sure what to think here but, after thinking back to officers like Flynn, it really looks to me like Milley is more of a way for the right to score political points than a legitimate serious threat to the country.

However, I do believe that every member of this Committee should resign.

Many GENs thought we should have kept at least about 2500 or more Troops at Bagram. As the ANA/ANP were holding their own in many cases. With US support[advisors and CAS, just like Vietnam] and the CAS, Drones, etc., were flying out of Bagram.

And what did they do about when Biden's handlers ordered the troops out before removing the civilians and decommissioning equipment? Just follow orders, ok…fine, good for them…

They were going to wait us out, like the VC/NVA did.

Recall that Joe Biden pushed for cutting all aid and support to South Vietnam back in the day…he has now done this twice with the same disastrous result…

I would like to see a President tell the truth and take responsibility for his conduct and decisions. I would not hold it against anyone who admitted making a mistake and accepted the consequences. Personal honor matters.

Also its hard for me to believe that nearly everything bad that has happened to us in the past 40 years is actually the fault of the various leaders of one political party.

Same photo concept was used for Petraeus when he was said to have failed in Afghan. He has even more than Milley.

Ike's uniform in the Smithsonian actually has quite a few ribbons.

However, I do believe that every member of this Committee should resign.

I tend to agree in some cases … These televised hearing seem to be "political theater" for some of our elected leaders. But I like the "openness" of these, but also understand the need for closed door hearing as well.

And what did they do about when Biden's handlers ordered the troops out before removing the civilians and decommissioning equipment? Just follow orders, ok…fine, good for them…

As we know … The military has to follow the legal orders from the elected & appointed civilian leadership. That is the way is does & should work.

The military & intel agencies can only advise. And they probably could even say they disagree with those decisions. But that would/could mean little to the elected/appointed leadership in many situations. As we see … 'nuff said.

I'm sure the GENs, COLs, LTCs, on down to even the SGTs knew this was a very bad idea and situation would only get worse and it did. Because of this …

But what could the Military do in the face of incompetent, politically motivated, etc. decisions vs. sound military judgement, etc. ?

Recall that Joe Biden pushed for cutting all aid and support to South Vietnam back in the day…he has now done this twice with the same disastrous result…

Yes that is a historical fact. 'nuff said …

The photo of Eisenhower and Milley is just not valid. The US ARMY had different standards, awards, devises, etc. from WWII to now. I don't think this is a "fair" assessment, etc.

E.g. ;

Ike was not parachute qualified

Nor awarded a Combat Infantryman's Badge[he never served in actual combat, AFAIK].

Nor was Ike RANGER qualified.

We didn't even have Special Forces/Green Beret units in WWII as we have today. So Ike would not had even been able to go to SF training nor be awarded the SF tab.

Milley also has a combat diver's badge. Again Ike did not go to any type of diver training.

Many of the ribbons on Milley's uniform did not exist in WWII.

If those are all of Ike's metals/ribbons, I really don't know if they are ? If that is the case I have more metals devices, etc., than Ike (!). IIRC I've got 7 or 8 metals/ribbons and 3 qualification badges. However, I am no how any where near as capable, etc., as one of the greatest leaders in US military history. As Ike is considered and IMO is …

So my point is this is an "unfair" comparison, IMO …

Thank you Legion. It's not the hearings, it's the politicians. I will say no more.

Lee' s dress uniform had no ribbons. Ike did have more ribbons than in this photo. Different times and standards.
different training and many specialized warfare credentials today, as you say.
just another cheap shot at a guy with a lot of serious cred. Go after his decisions, not his uniform.

But it's really POTUS who needs to explain his decisions.

Tortorella +1

But it's really POTUS who needs to explain his decisions.

'nuff said …

But it's really POTUS who needs to explain his decisions.

Not just him and his handlers -- as Lt Col Scheller's parents said recently these top generals should have had the personal integrity and honor to put their rank on the table and tell POTUS his decision is a deadly mistake, and they will resign before carrying it out. It was their duty to do so, if they still believe in duty. Instead I see three selfish men desperately spinning and ducking accountability to save their own skins, their positions and their post-service Member of the Board offers at their favorite defense contractors….while the Lt Col who dared criticize them is sitting in the Brig being refused contact with parents and others.

If they put their rank on the table that would probably kill off DoD procurement, especially in the USN.

POTUS his decision is a deadly mistake,

And yet many still don't see that. Again I watched the hearings for 2 days.

a deadly mistake, and they will resign before carrying it out. It was their duty to do so, if they still believe in duty. Instead I see three selfish men desperately spinning and ducking accountability to save their own skins, their positions and their post-service Member of the Board offers at their favorite defense contractors

If they put their rank on the table that would probably kill off DoD procurement, especially in the USN

Very good points.

I am not sure it is someone's duty to resign. For some, that may feel like a dereliction. Not sure what they should have done. Or any of the others over the years. There were plenty of things to answer for.

I am not sure it is someone's duty to resign. For some, that may feel like a dereliction.

A former boss of mine was a 3 Star who resigned rather than sign off on intelligence estimates to POTUS that he thought were dangerously politically skewed by CIA. But then he'd been in the pointy edge of things in Vietnam and had a real issue with political wish fulfillment pretending to be an assessment. So I'm biased. If Milley and crew really objected and felt strongly that what POTUS was ordering them to do was going to lead to fiasco, it was their duty to resign -- not resigning and making a stink is the real dereliction of duty. Their failure to try and sway the president's team from their course of action resulted in the single most damaging event to US national security since the Fall of Saigon, raised the likelihood of war and disruption globally, left thousands of US citizens and Green Card holders behind as hostage and directly equipped one of the most brutal theocratic regimes on the planet, who despite any PR attempts, remains a committed enemy of the US. An enemy now well equipped by billions of dollars with of gear left behind in the rush to retreat (or "retrograde" as the a&$ covering generals called it).

Here's an image of one the Taliban's special hit squads roaming Kabul…executing people who had been US supporters or critics of the Taliban. Say, where do you think they got all that nice tasty equipment??

Some very good points SBminisguy … as we know the military has to follow the legal orders of the POTUS. But some may see those orders being legal but "stupid", etc. So I can see why they might feel strong enough to resign.

And yes, the Taliban are troglodytes, they are backward insects. That really have no right to live anymore, IMO. What they do in the name of their skewed form a religion is medieval. No one should be surprised at this. But yet it seems some at the top thought otherwise … E.g. did some in DC really thought these savages were going to respect women's rights, etc. That will never happen anytime soon if ever …

But they will be more than glad to execute and amputate … anyone for any reason.

And yes, the evac for A'stan was debacle … made the US look very bad/amateurish, etc. Again my fingers points to those at the top.☝ Not the troops on the ground …

We all agree about the Taliban.

I don't know how strongly Milley felt or how much he really objected. Every option was bad. Even bringing in the 5000 to secure Bagram sounds like a firefight in the making. But I don't know. Cause I was not there.

Sometimes it's easier to go than stay and try to do something. I think maybe Kelly felt this way. But I don't know this either.

9/11 is still the biggest security disaster since Saigon – American soil.
But I get your drift.

Who should fix our decision making process?

Mattis had the guts to openly resign rather than carry out Trump's orders to end the US troop presence in Syria, which he strongly felt was a mistake. That's in sharp contrast to political weasels like Milley, who did not push back hard against POTUS and will not resign over their role in the worst political/military disaster in 45 years.