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"Russian greatcoat as worn over the shoulder." Topic


11 Posts

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651 hits since 25 Sep 2021
©1994-2021 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

StevenM25 Sep 2021 10:34 a.m. PST

I believe Russian greatcoats were brown in colour most commonly and i was wondering if they were wrapped in a covering when not worn and carried over the shoulder.

Reason i ask is i have seen it images and models in a grey colour almost as commonly as you see it in brown when not worn.
Im scratching my head in what colour to paint the greatcoat.
From a aesthetic point of view, to me it looks nicer painted in grey

14Bore25 Sep 2021 11:04 a.m. PST

My reading makes them grey brown or grey, now by rights should probably have both as clothing was manufactured all over. But being that most of mine opted for a light brown though tried often to make grey/brown.

link

No great coat covers I know of, Prussians used a leather button cuff to keep it wrapped but not sure it was a Russian used item.

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Sep 2021 11:23 a.m. PST

There was many different colours of overcoats, even whites, red and blues.
One may paint grey for guard and brownish grey for others.

Michman25 Sep 2021 12:02 p.m. PST

The standard greatcoat [Russian : шинель / shinel ] of 1800-1815 was made of un-dyed gray wool broadcloth. The same natural color batch was supposed to be used for the whole regiment. Surviving examples are indeed most all mid-gray, but contemporary illustrations show the expected variations of dark/light and more or less brown. "One may paint grey for guard and brownish grey for others." sounds reasonable.

The greatcoat was supposed to have a partial lining in cotton or linen, but at times this was omitted or even hemp cloth was substituted. It was supposed to seven flat metal buttons, but examples with only 6 are found in museums and in illustrations

There was no cover. There was a leather retaining strap with buckle – in the color of the unit's other leatherwork.
Rolling the greatcoat :
YouTube link

Erzherzog Johann25 Sep 2021 8:35 p.m. PST

Wow! was the silvered cuirass a standard feature for musicians in Russian cuirassier regiments?

Cheers,
John

Sho Boki Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Sep 2021 11:13 p.m. PST

No, it wasn't.
If you talk about bad picture in 14Bore link, then there are no cuirasse but usual white uniform.

Michman26 Sep 2021 2:34 a.m. PST

The only Russian regiment regularly or generally equipped with "bare steel" cuirasses was the Pskov Dragoon regiment, commander Colonel Andrey Andreyevich Zas [Gideon Heinrich von Saß 1770-1830], with 4 "active" squadrons in the 2nd Reserve Cavalry corps with the 1st Western army.

After the battle of Tarutino on 18 October (6 October Old Style), the Pskov Dragoon regiment received enough captured brass carabinier cuirasses to equip their officers. These were supplemented for the men with captured steel cuirasses from 18 (6 O.S.) November, after the battle of Krasny, and black Russian cuirasses in about equal numbers distributed by squadron. The regiment became the Pskov Cuirassier regiment on 29 (17 O.S.) December 1812.

On 8 January 1813 (27 December 1812 O.S.), Russian dragoon and cuirassier regiments were increased to 6 "active" squadrons (3 in steel, 3 in black cuirasses for the Pskov cuirassiers), with their former "replacement" squadrons joining the main force of the regiment. The "replacement" squadron for the Pskovets, under Major Grigoriy Fyodorovich Goloshchapov-1 [~1775-1818], had been serving in a Combined Dragoon regiment with the 1st Separate Corps.

Musicians in Russian cuirassier regiments did not wear the cuirasse.

Personal logo SHaT1984 Supporting Member of TMP26 Sep 2021 12:16 p.m. PST

>>Musicians in Russian cuirassier regiments did not wear the cuirasse.

Nor in any other nation.

Just begs the question doesnt it- why wear them? Captured/ recovered, when your own regiments didn't?
Do dragoons wearing a cuirass get a +1,
cheeky :-)
d

Stoppage Supporting Member of TMP27 Sep 2021 3:15 p.m. PST

Well, if wearing a cuirass prevents you from being run through then why not sport one?

Trumpeters were usually behind the troop line as supernumaries and had freedom of movement – their mobility was their protection.

Trockledockle27 Sep 2021 3:27 p.m. PST

I understood that cuirassier trumpeters didn't wear cuirasses as it was a hangover from medieval times when they were treated as a kind of non-combatant herald. The same reason they had grey horses. By Napoleonic times this had largely fallen away and they were targeted- see the British orders removing reverse colours.

The leather cuff on Prussian greatcoats worn across the shoulder was the weather proof protective cover for the flintlock. Officers, drummers etc didn't have it.

Michman28 Sep 2021 12:08 a.m. PST

"Do dragoons wearing a cuirass get a +1,"
Do cuirassiers *not* wearing a cuirasse get a +1 ?

Russian cuirassiers wore a front plate (only) 1731-1778, no cuirasse 1778-1796. front plate only 1796-1801, no cuirasse 1801-1812, front & back plates 1812 and later.

Saxon cuirassiers were also not always wearing cuirasses.

Should French carabiniers not get a +1 until they were armored, despite being the elite of the French army cavalry? Or British heavy dragoons who had no armor ?

By the way (for completeness) …. in addition to the Pskovets' steel cuirasses, Russian officers' cuirasses were polished steel front plates only 1763-1778 and the Heir's demonstration corps at Gatchina had 3 small squdrons of cuirassiers (or gendarmes) with polished steel front plates only ~1794-1796.

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