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"If the government outlawed all but one scale..." Topic


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Gorgrat23 Sep 2021 10:29 a.m. PST

…because it's the kind of thing the government might do, which scale would you want them to keep?

I think I could be happiest with 25 or 28. Big enough that I can still see them nicely, even at my age, and they are good for roleplaying and skirmishing. Small enough that I can get some level of mass battles from them.

Really, there just isn't much I feel the need to play that I can't do equally well in 25-28.

Navals? I'd usually rather play boarding actions. For me that also extends to starship gaming, which I'd rather do on inch square battlemats.

Really, as I think about it, when you get into even the really massive combats, such as Kursk, maybe, why not just play strategic level games with miniatures, where maybe each individual tank or five man fire team is scaled to represent a brigade or division?

Your thoughts may differ, but I think our masters may be coming for us next, so I want to be prepared.

"First they came for the 2mm gamers. But I wasn't a 2mm gamer, so I didn't speak up…"

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 10:38 a.m. PST

Oh, but Gorgrat, they'll be doing it for the CHILDREN! Don't you care about the children? And anyway, there will be waivers for those special people who pay them $50 USDK for a one-hour speech.

I refuse to go below two. I want a skirmish scale and a mass battle scale.

GildasFacit Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 10:38 a.m. PST

Daft question as far as I'm concerned. If you had to reduce to a single scale it would be easy for some (I know many who only do one scale anyway) and nearly impossible for people like me who do 2, 3, 6, 10, 15, 20, 28 & 54mm as well as a few naval scales as well.

Why would you even want to consider it ?

DisasterWargamer Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 11:00 a.m. PST

Gildas dont forget 12, 18, 25, 32 and so on

It is worth mentioning that I think the Model Rail Roading hobby benefited to having some standards with scale avoiding some of scale creep as much

Personal logo doc mcb Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 11:02 a.m. PST

It would be a violation of the social compact and grounds for revolution.

John Leahy23 Sep 2021 11:02 a.m. PST

1/72 20mm. I love other scales as well including 6mm and 54mm. But since I was a kid they were my favorite! Still are.
Plus I own thousands and thousands of them!

Thanks

John

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 11:40 a.m. PST

"It's not a scale! It's a size!"
Famous rants from the past.

Even if we blow that argument off, history (Remember "history"?) has shown us that even settling on a scale is irrelevant.
I started with 25mm Ancients, and have more or less stuck with that scale for centuries.
The only problem that arose was when I took up AWI. I bought, and still do, any and all ranges that identify as "25mm".
Well, back in the Earlies, there were quite a few manufacturers who came in at 22mm or 23mm. "True 25mm" were actually the larger ones. I dropped out for a geologic era, and then returned. Suddenly, there was "heroic 25mm"! That kind of morphed into 28mm. Old Glory still calls their 28mm 25mm.
All kind of sizes that identify as 25mm really aren't.
I sold off my "tiny 25mm" figures. One or two manufacturers were VERY large, but still identified as 25mm. Luckily they were hideous sculpts, so ditching them was not a problem.
AWI has kind of settled into a very comfortable scale that I call "Perry Compatible", which is adhered to by quite a few manufacturers.

I'm not all that familiar with 15mm, except for WWII, but even there there can be total disconnect in sizes. I varied manufacturers with my Finns, and the disparity in sizes between various "15mm" ranges was even more staggering than in "25mm".

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 11:42 a.m. PST

doc mcb +1

GurKhan23 Sep 2021 11:49 a.m. PST

Which government? Don't forget this is an international forum…

The US government would standardise on one scale, the EU on another; the UK government would try to standardise on something but would be forced to concede that the Welsh, Scottish, and NI governments could set their own scales. Heaven knows what the Canadian and Australian governments would do.

jurgenation Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 12:29 p.m. PST

ALL shall enter ..ONE shall leave.

Prince Rupert of the Rhine23 Sep 2021 12:59 p.m. PST

I now have visions of the government Scale Confirmation Agency for Miniatures (or SCAM for short) agents in full tactical gear raiding some poor wargamers hobby room.

"My god! Captain the degenerate has 6mm miniatures in these boxes. Sir over here! We have disgusting books with pictures of, oh god, painted 28mm miniatures…. "

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 1:03 p.m. PST

Of course, the government would probably decide that the One Legal Scale shall be the square root of the combined total of all possible scales, but must be inclusive of non-metric and non-ratio scales, divided by the percentage of the population not-engaging in miniatures, but also varied according to seasonal distributions of processed cheese products with the approval of a special tribunal which shall meet on the 22nd and 1/4th day of a month that begins with J, which shall rotate according to a logarithmic ratio tied to the commodity values of salt, said day not falling on a legal holiday except if a Wednesday, in which case it must be moved to the second following Thursday, except in months ending in Y, where the date shall be determined by the previous meeting of the tribunal.

Doug MSC Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 1:14 p.m. PST

I'll take all my toys and move to an undiscovered Island. I'll find one somewhere.When I do, I will let you all know so you can come and game with me in any scale you want.

Personal logo Silurian Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 2:43 p.m. PST

Rather Dead Than Red[uced to one scale]!

But actually no, lol. I'd stick to 1/72 without too much revolutionary thought!

Tgerritsen Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 2:59 p.m. PST

If the government outlawed all but a single scale, you'd see the rise of back alley black market scale sellers. Soon scale crime bosses would emerge. Imagine the horror of those friendly mini manufacturers ordering hits on their now criminal fellows to corner the market in the illicit trade of 1/144 World War Two miniatures.

Pretty soon they begin branching out into other criminal enterprises and before you know it there are books written about the history of the Old Glory wars.

Gear Pilot23 Sep 2021 3:04 p.m. PST

If all the miniatures I own magically converted to one scale/size, I'd pick 20mm – small enough for easy storage and large enough for plenty of detail.

Those Federation and Klingon starships will be a problem though.

Gorgrat23 Sep 2021 3:07 p.m. PST

John the OFM

Oh come on. This is a REASONED discussion.

Gurkhan

You think there's more than one government? Sorry to disappoint you, boyoh…

doc mcb

We're there now.

Robert piepenbrink

And yes, it's all about the children. And the environment. And the marmosets…

Prince Rupert

HOW DID YOU FIND OUT ABOUT SCAM?

Gildasfacit

You play 2 and 3mm? How can you tell the difference?

As to the rest of you, you've already made statements in violation of SCAM directives.

Please come quietly.

Extrabio1947 Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 4:02 p.m. PST

Like everything else, it would depend on which scale had the most effective, and most well-funded lobbyists on Capitol Hill.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 4:55 p.m. PST

I think 1/72 would be reasonable.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 5:08 p.m. PST

Hey Gorgrat! I do 2mm myself. Easily distinguishable from those big clunky 3mm figures. How do the 3mm players find room for a game?

(Just kidding. Though I do have 2mm normally I'd think of 5 or 6mm as the "mass battle" scale, and 28mm as the scale for skirmishes of smaller, more intimate battles. The 2mm are just supposed to be a travel set--though I keep thinking of 2mm Leipzig on a 6' x 7' board.)

Gorgrat23 Sep 2021 5:17 p.m. PST

😆

Gorgrat23 Sep 2021 5:29 p.m. PST

Robert Piepenbrink

In a way, that's why I got into paper flats. I can have my cake and eat it too! Big figures, yet very light, travel easy, and mass battles are no problem.

Except, of course, nobody can have his cake and eat it too. Everybody has to pay the piper.

For me, the cost comes in the expense of the third dimension. From that angle, the army becomes invisible.

But, hey, that's wargaming! I would never say that an exquisitely painted and sculpted 13th century knight in 54mm scale isn't better looking than my 28mm 2d paper flats.

Now, what I would say is that the owner of that knight had better buy and paint a second one, and be prepared to limit his hobby to a lot of jousting, because for the same price he pays for those guys, I can field certainly hundreds and probably a few thousands of paper figures, and have huge battles and d&d games to my heart's content.

Everything is a trade off at some level. The hobby is meant to be fun. If you got that going on, you can't ask for more.

Good gaming to all!

JMcCarroll23 Sep 2021 5:41 p.m. PST

Like everything else, it would depend on which scale had the most effective, and most well-funded lobbyists on Capitol Hill.

Hit it right on the head.

Perhaps "our" lobbyists could sneak an amendment stating anything made before X date is an art object and therefor is allowed to be gamed with?

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 5:42 p.m. PST

I don't need a scale which permits me better vision
when painting.

At 80 years old, I paint the same as I did 60 years
ago poorly and with spray cans…or hire it done.

Parzival, you have my vote for SCAM Commissioner !

Gorgrat23 Sep 2021 5:44 p.m. PST

JMcCarroll

Why stop there? We could get Federal funding for it!!!

Gorgrat23 Sep 2021 5:46 p.m. PST

Ef Mohrman

80? May I still be breathing and gaming by then!

Oberlindes Sol LIC Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 5:57 p.m. PST

When the government outlaws certain scales, outlaws will buy 3D printers.

Chimpy Supporting Member of TMP23 Sep 2021 8:49 p.m. PST

If anything the government will outlaw all scales. Stamp out war toys and other forms of warmongering.

Then we'll all have to play in the closet with only close friends allowed to be in the know about our dark secret.

Zephyr123 Sep 2021 8:57 p.m. PST

It won't be below 35mm (due to possible choking hazard), so those who like smaller scales will become hunted criminals… ;-)

Martin Rapier23 Sep 2021 11:57 p.m. PST

If forced to pick just one scale I'd go for 15mm. Good compromise of cost, storage, looks and ease of transportation.

Gorgrat24 Sep 2021 12:07 a.m. PST

15mm definitely has a lot going for it. When I recently got back into the hobby, the major competitor for my 28mm flats was 15mm

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP24 Sep 2021 3:40 a.m. PST

We're worrying too much--or not in the right way. Remember when the US government decreed that all medical records be digitized? Their first move was to decide that none of the existing digital systems met the high standard set by the US government, and refer the whole thing to various committees. We now have three different digital medical systems, most of which can't talk to each other. Picture SCAM following that example!

Gorgrat, a box of paper soldier books it to be stored with my son and daughter in law on my next trip. I figure if anything happened to the present collections, I wouldn't have the time and energy to paint another set.

Personal logo David Manley Supporting Member of TMP24 Sep 2021 5:06 a.m. PST

we are all pretty screwed if it isn't 1:1 :)

Kevin C Supporting Member of TMP24 Sep 2021 6:07 a.m. PST

Size = 25-28mm
scale = 1/50 – 1/56

I know what you mean Gorgrat and I would have phrased the question the same way. But please stop giving the government any more ideas.

Thresher0124 Sep 2021 6:33 a.m. PST

1:1 to deal appropriately with the situation.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP24 Sep 2021 7:07 a.m. PST

Correction. There are actually FIVE mandatory digital medical record systems in the US. Only the one the VA bought had "works with other systems" as a critical feature.

But imagine SCAM's troubles trying to find a scale no one uses, which would almost surely be their first thought.

Personal logo Andrew Walters Supporting Member of TMP24 Sep 2021 9:29 a.m. PST

First, they're not going to choose a popular scale. You don't need a law to make people do what they want to do. They're going to choose an unpopular scale.

But more importantly, this would create a whole lot more criminals. Some people, perhaps with 3D printers, would go on doing as they liked. Using 15mm or 1/300 would be a political statement.

As a more productive vein, maybe we can get the government to spend some money on gaming infrastructure by subsidizing insufficiently popular scales. And terrain. As a whole this hobby has better looking minis than terrain. Terrain is gaming infrastructure. Also, dice should be tax deductible. Why haven't the dice manufacturer's had their lobbyists working not that?

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP24 Sep 2021 11:55 p.m. PST

Just remember the $10,000 USD toilet seats and $400 USD screwdrivers.
The Gubmint couldn't just go down to Ace Hardware and pick up a few Philip's screwdrivers. No no no no!
Consider that when Da Gubmint starts standardizing scales. No existing ranges will be correct of course.
Anyone with … err eclectic ….. choices in what is a 25mm AWI figure will be forced to abandon those that do not correspond to GMSE 2929.375.

Gorgrat25 Sep 2021 4:47 p.m. PST

robert piepenbrink

That's what I would do. In fact, if you're just getting into paper flats… don't do paper flats! Get polyester labels from an office supply company called uline. They make these for labeling cans of industrial waste, so they're pretty invulnerable to just about anything.

In fact, if I still lived near a salt water coast, I think I'd never do 3d miniatures again. Too easily corroded.

Kevin c


You're right. YouTube link

Personal logo COL Scott ret Supporting Member of TMP26 Sep 2021 7:29 p.m. PST

The one true scale 1:72. So of course the SCAM will choose something almost but not completely opposed. It is in the fine print.

Gorgrat26 Sep 2021 8:41 p.m. PST

Makes sense.

UshCha17 Oct 2021 4:36 a.m. PST

There us ONLY one true scale 1/144. All figure should be required to have there true scale printed on the sales packet. This should refer to the height of the figure. If this is not possible the foot to eye distance should be used and scaled on using an appropriate e.g
link
Failure to do so should mean the sculpture is shot.

Non humans fantasy can be whatever their masters desire.

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