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"US removes Patriot missile defenses from Saudi Arabia" Topic


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734 hits since 13 Sep 2021
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Personal logo SBminisguy Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2021 11:18 a.m. PST

I don't understand the strategic logic of this move -- if a brighter mind than mine can comment?? Following on the heels of a chaotic and humiliating retreat from Afghanistan, the Biden team has removed US anti-missile systems from Saudi Arabia, which were helping defend them from Scud missile attacks coming from Yemen.

This seems to signal diminished support for Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States as Iran's power once again begins to rise in the region due to US actions, and could also destabilize the Abraham Accords -- the growing rapprochement between Arab states in the region and Israel.

According to the AP:

US pulls missile defenses in Saudi Arabia amid Yemen attacks

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) The U.S. has removed its most advanced missile defense system and Patriot batteries from Saudi Arabia in recent weeks, even as the kingdom faced continued air attacks from Yemen's Houthi rebels, satellite photos analyzed by The Associated Press show.

The redeployment of the defenses from Prince Sultan Air Base outside of Riyadh came as America's Gulf Arab allies nervously watched the chaotic withdrawal of U.S. troops from Afghanistan, including their last-minute evacuations from Kabul's besieged international airport.

While tens of thousands of American forces remain across the Arabian Peninsula as a counterweight to Iran, Gulf Arab nations worry about the U.S.'s future plans as its military perceives a growing threat in Asia that requires those missile defenses. Tensions remain high as negotiations appear stalled in Vienna over Iran's collapsed nuclear deal with world powers, raising the danger of future confrontations in the region.

link

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian13 Sep 2021 11:35 a.m. PST

Apparently, the idea is that we can only cooperate with governments that are at our same level of advanced democracy.

BattlerBritain13 Sep 2021 11:51 a.m. PST

Haven't the Saudis just bought SAMs from the Russians?

Or did I mis-interpret some other news report?

Personal logo SBminisguy Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2021 12:26 p.m. PST

I'm not aware of the Saudis buying Russian SAMs (Turkey has), but maybe that's the next thing that will happen since they have recently signed a defense agreement with Russia:

Saudi Arabia And Russia Sign New Military Agreement
By RFE/RL staff – Aug 25, 2021, 11:30 AM CDT

Saudi Arabia and Russia have signed a military cooperation agreement at an arms expo outside Moscow.

Saudi Deputy Defense Minister Khalid bin Salman announced on Twitter on August 24 that he signed the agreement with Russian Deputy Defense Minister Alexander Fomin "aimed at developing joint military cooperation between the two countries."

link

Personal logo SBminisguy Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2021 12:27 p.m. PST

Apparently, the idea is that we can only cooperate with governments that are at our same level of advanced democracy.

Or is the idea to completely dismantle the last Admin's security arrangements no matter the cost, and that by so doing it will somehow lead to more better peace??

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2021 12:36 p.m. PST

When the policy of an Administration is to despise and reverse everything the previous administration did, thus is what you get.
But the Former Guy did the exact same thing.

How long before Israel gets thrown under the bus?

In future years to come, what foreign government will trust us to any degree, seeing how everything gets reversed every 4 years?
American foreign policy has always been chaotic, but it's gotten worse.

rustymusket Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2021 1:18 p.m. PST

I am not good enough at chess to anticipate too far in advance. The one thing I always regretted about my eventual death was that I would not know what happened after. Silly me, I read history. I already know. It just keeps going on as it has.

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2021 2:28 p.m. PST

>
But the Former Guy did the exact same thing.<

You mean canceling the scam that resulted in pallet loads of cash being delivered in the dead of night and approval to continue developing nuclear weapons to attack Israel?

Seems to me a big difference there unless a person is trying to confuse the situation.

HMS Exeter13 Sep 2021 2:58 p.m. PST

I remember hearing once…

History does not repeat itself,
but it does often rhyme.

Legion 4 In the TMP Dawghouse13 Sep 2021 3:24 p.m. PST

When the policy of an Administration is to despise and reverse everything the previous administration did, thus is what you get.
Bingo !

But the Former Guy did the exact same thing.
But much of those decisions were to the USA's plus side, IMO.

How long before Israel gets thrown under the bus?
As long Deleted by Moderator This may be the case … IMO.

In future years to come, what foreign government will trust us to any degree, seeing how everything gets reversed every 4 years?
Bingo ! Hope this trend will end. But with the hatred from, for & to each side. As we see that is not going to happen anything. In the near future it will be the same. If one admin painted it white the other one will Deleted by Moderator

American foreign policy has always been chaotic, but it's gotten worse.
Bingo !!!! Much, much worse …

You mean canceling the scam that resulted in pallet loads of cash being delivered in the dead of night and approval to continue developing nuclear weapons to attack Israel?
Spot on ! This pallet loads of cash to Iran certainly seems like a bad idea. Deleted by Moderator

Personal logo aegiscg47 Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2021 3:47 p.m. PST

Not trying to get political here, but this administration does have a lot of holdovers, former employees, and consultants from the Obama administration. At that time (according to a few analysts), it was thought what was needed is a strongman in the area; i.e., Iran that could get all the Arab nations in line, present a united front against Israel (sort of a useful foil), and make it easy for the U.S. to just have to deal with one leader who controlled all the rest. A very interesting idea and I can see why it would be attractive. I have a feeling that the current administration is thinking the same way.

arealdeadone13 Sep 2021 4:15 p.m. PST

Why subsidise KSA's defence?

They have an air defence system that's far more advanced, far more dense than anything in western Europe and the USA. Literally most of Europe is at subsharan African levels compared to Saudi AD.


Saudi Air Defence is its own service branch with 40,000 men and is equipped with advanced systems like Patriot and THAAD as well as older but upgraded I-HAWKS!

Indeed they spent $15 USD billion on the THAAD purchase alone.

All backed up by an ultra advanced strike fighter fleet complete with AWACS and tanking. Indeed Saudi Arabian F-15SAs are more advanced than American F-15Es and Saudi Arabia has nearly as many F-15S/SAs are US has F-15Es (152 v 221-ish) alongside 60+ F-15C/D, 70 Eurofighter Typhoons and 80 upgraded Tornados!

That's nearly 400 advanced combat aircraft (compared to say 225 for France and Germany or 160-ish for RAF).

And before someone goes "but Saudis are bad soldiers" most advanced Saudi systems are often operated by western "advisers"


And personally I think leave China's little Islamo-fascist oil supplier to their own devices.

arealdeadone13 Sep 2021 4:24 p.m. PST

I'm not aware of the Saudis buying Russian SAMs (Turkey has), but maybe that's the next thing that will happen since they have recently signed a defense agreement with Russia:

Saudis and UAE have both dealt extensively with Russia over the years. UAE even commissioned Russia to develop the (failed) Pantsir air defence system that has been chewed up in Syria and Libya.

UAE also uses Russian Wagner group in Libya.

Personal logo SBminisguy Supporting Member of TMP14 Sep 2021 7:37 a.m. PST

Why subsidise KSA's defence?

They have an air defence system that's far more advanced, far more dense than anything in western Europe and the USA. Literally most of Europe is at subsharan African levels compared to Saudi AD.

It's a matter of demonstrating commitment to an ally, one that's currently at war with the Iranian-backed Houthi faction that controls much of Yemen. Our actions signal our priorities, will and intent.

*The US has told Iran it wants a nuke deal without any preconditions
*The US has dropped sanctions on the Saudi's foes in Yemen
*The US has chaotically retreated from a major commitment in Afghanistan to the celebration of its foes
*The US has also told the Taliban, which are celebrating their victory over a US proxy ally, that it will send the Taliban almost $70 USD Million in aid money
*The US pulls units out of Saudi Arabia

That's why China's pressuring Taiwan -- you seeing this? You think America has your back? HAH! You're alone, better cut a deal with us before we just stomp you and take over while the US looks on impotently.

This is how serious wars get started…I hope we're not in for a test of Hegemonic Stability Theory…

link

Thresher0114 Sep 2021 1:49 p.m. PST

Makes perfect sense to those that want to appease our enemies like the Iranians, Taliban and other jihadis, Chinese (personal, traitorous phone call from a sitting US general [at least temporarily] ), North Koreans, Central and South American drug cartels, and Russians (Putin got that EU pipeline approval he wanted, while the US one was canceled).

I wonder what we'll do to appease the Norks next?

Legion 4 In the TMP Dawghouse14 Sep 2021 3:41 p.m. PST

want to appease our enemies

The Norks … If not Un will feel left out and do something more to get attention. Like the new thing about missiles that can reach Jap … 🗾🎌⛩

arealdeadone14 Sep 2021 3:52 p.m. PST

It's a matter of demonstrating commitment to an ally

An ally that is barbaric and only 1 step away from ISIS/Taliban in its attitudes.

An ally whose citizens committed many terror attacks against US including 9-11.

An ally that is single handily responsible for most of the world's Sunni terrorism thanks to its endemic funding of fundamentalist mosques and madrassas on a global scale etc.

An ally that is involved in war crimes in Yemen.

An ally that is so far beyond normal international behaviour, it has people hacked up in its embassies, chops people's heads off for witchcraft and adultery.


Iran's not much better but Saudi Arab regime should have been destroyed decades ago, not supported.

By being an ally with such a regime, the US stance on human rights becomes a comedic joke not worth the paper the Bill of Rights is written on.

And that takes out a lot of the soft power capability you can't promote Russia, Iran and China as EVIL if your own allies are on par or worse (Russia and China are far closer to US values than Saudi Arabia).

Thresher0115 Sep 2021 1:39 a.m. PST

The Iranians ARE evil too, ardo.

They're the one stirring up the majority of the problems in the Middle East.

Yes, the Saudis should be held to account too, especially for 9/11. I want to see the full intel, and ALL Americans deserve to see that. There shouldn't be a coverup in a free society, no matter how embarrassing to the Saudis and the Bush family, who should be held to account too for permitting so many of the Saudi royal family(ies) from fleeing the country right after 9/11.

They should have been detained until we got the truth.

Iran is NOT "any" better than the Saudis.

China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan, the Saudis, Norks, and others should be ostracized both economically, and socially, until they change their ways.

The UN should be disbanded, and/or remade, and only those countries that offer free and democratic societies to their citizens should be permitted to join. Of course, of late, that may knock out many, many countries from membership, especially given some of their police-state lockdown policies.

America needs to restart its energy economy, using yes, fossil fuels, in order to weaken the above countries, and we should boycott the countries listed above and encourage others to do so as well.

Cerdic15 Sep 2021 2:16 p.m. PST

Be a bit hard to ostracise China economically. EVERYTHING is made there. Even the stuff that doesn't say 'made in China' on it has bits from China in it…

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