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"How late can you reasonably deploy janissaries?" Topic


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Gorgrat Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 4:43 a.m. PST

The Sultan phases them out (very gentle term for what actually happened, I know) just before the Napoleonic period, but can you still reasonably use the figures thereafter?

I'm guessing maybe some of the semi-autonomous states like Egypt or even later truly autonomous under the Khedive might have used them? Or maybe even some European states might have copied them, as they did with the sipahis?

Tough to throw out cool uniforms when you're trying to run a tyranny on a budget.

Druzhina09 Sep 2021 4:59 a.m. PST
stecal Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 5:16 a.m. PST

Before the Napoleonic period? The Auspicious Event disbanding the Janissaries didn't happen until 1826. They didn't field in battles very much anymore , but I am sure they still paraded (and revolted) in their distinctive uniforms until then.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 5:59 a.m. PST

Janissaries were not phased out prior to the Napoleonic Wars.

mildbill09 Sep 2021 8:00 a.m. PST

Ukrainians in the RCW used troops uniformed as Jannisaries.

Gorgrat Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 8:48 a.m. PST

Ste cal and 79th PA

Huh. Been awhile since I read the history, but I thought the janissaries were got rid of in the late 1700s. Oh well, been some years since I read anything about the Ottoman Empire.

My idea was to add an imagnary eastern European country to my present fantady/steamtech Victorian. One of those little places like Tintin and Snowy wete always causing trouble in. But with a vampire nobility ruling things. Like that vampire/racketeer country in The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne.

Anyway, thank you all. If it's good enough for Ukraine, it's good enough for Schadarkia😈

rpg

Gorgrat Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 8:51 a.m. PST

Drushina

THANKS!

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 2:54 p.m. PST

I have been tempted to use Ottomans for an Imaginations army myself.

Gorgrat Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 3:42 p.m. PST

^^👍

Gorgrat Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 3:43 p.m. PST

"Imaginations"! Cool idea!

evilgong09 Sep 2021 4:06 p.m. PST

1826

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 6:03 p.m. PST

The Janissaries had long ceased to be an elite force. Even in the Napoleonic wars, they were a hereditary useless parasite "legion".

Tgerritsen Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 8:09 p.m. PST

I'd say about 7:30. Much later and you get too close to their bed time.

Gorgrat Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 8:50 p.m. PST

John the OFM

No need for them to be elite! Buffoonish rascals can be just as much fun in this type of game!

Lilian10 Sep 2021 4:45 a.m. PST

Indeed 1826 as repeated when they were disbanded and partially slaughtered

However as the Ottoman Empire is a great and very complex State not so centralised as we usually think with territories having more or less autonomy, the consequences of events or decisions taken in Turkey can be quite variable if they were applied

in Tunisia they were disbanded in 1829

in July 1830 the Regency of Algiers had still their Turkish Janissaries when they were beaten, disarmed and expelled by the French Army, allowing only the married or older men to stay

The case of Egypt and Egyptian Army is very particular, nominally still under Ottoman authority, Egypt has to be distinguished from the Ottoman given its level of autonomy, as the country was quite far to be semi-autonomous but rather almost independant at such point that took place a war between Egypt and Turkey on the brink of generalised expanded war between France allied to Egypt againt the Ottoman allied to the rest of European powers
Don't mess with Egypt

The European didn't copy at all the "Sipahis" but only such word with the Sepoys Sipahis Cipahis Cipayes Indian infantrymen in several colonial Armies in India such as British French Portuguese Danish..or the cavalrymen named "Spahis" indigenous light cavalry in French or Italian colonial Armies
both having nothing to do with the notion of Ottoman Sipahis Knights heavy cavalry

Gorgrat Supporting Member of TMP10 Sep 2021 6:48 a.m. PST

Yes, the French were the only ones to have sipahi (spahi) mounted cavalry, and, of course, during Le Belle Epoch, it would have been pretty silly if they had worn heavy chainmail.

But they were "modeled" on the sipahis to some extent, in their uniforms, and the fact that they were cavalry.

In fact, I think it's fair to say that in that period, when one unit was "modeled" after a foreign unit, similarity of uniform was often as far as it went.

A similar example might be Louisiana and New York zouaves.

Gorgrat Supporting Member of TMP10 Sep 2021 7:19 a.m. PST

And not to harp on my own thread, but I can actually use janissaries as Napoleonic figures? Now that makes life fun indeed!

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP10 Sep 2021 8:13 p.m. PST

Gorgrat Supporting Member of TMP 09 Sep 2021 8:50 p.m. PST
John the OFM

No need for them to be elite! Buffoonish rascals can be just as much fun in this type of game!


Well, excuse me, Sir!
I didn't realize that you embrace silliness as I do.
Make them ELITE buffoonish rascals.

It's part of the reason I always want to play Bashi-Bazouks. But I don't expect "elite" from them. Oh no!

Lilian11 Sep 2021 7:52 a.m. PST

the French were the only ones to have sipahi (spahi) mounted cavalry

nope, as said, the French Army was not the only to one to have Spahis, the Italian Army too

and the importance of use the right word at the right place at the right context to avoid lost in translation cases
precisely the French didn't have "sipahis (spahis) mounted cavalry" but BOTH
a corps of Infantry Sipahis more often spelled Cipahis in India, the French cipayes/sepoys
AND
Spahis in the Light Cavalry

Gorgrat Supporting Member of TMP11 Sep 2021 9:48 a.m. PST

I now to your wisdom, sir.

Gorgrat Supporting Member of TMP11 Sep 2021 11:19 a.m. PST

<Shrugs>"bow". Can't put a foot right today.

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