Help support TMP


""Legionarii skirmishers"?" Topic


11 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

Please remember not to make new product announcements on the forum. Our advertisers pay for the privilege of making such announcements.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Ancients Discussion Message Board


Areas of Interest

Ancients

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Featured Ruleset

Poseidon's Warriors


Rating: gold star gold star gold star gold star gold star 


Featured Showcase Article

Cheap Undead Dinos III

The last - the most elusive - set of dino skellies...


Featured Workbench Article

Painting the Castle Kits Egyptian Temple Entrance

Minidragon Fezian finishes his Temple project by painting the kit he previously assembled.


Featured Profile Article


517 hits since 9 Sep 2021
©1994-2021 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.
Paskal Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 3:50 a.m. PST

Hello everyone,

In the old army lists WRG N 77 & 81, it is a question of "Legionarii skirmishers"? They are javelin throwers, archers, crossbowmen, slingers and fustibaliers.

Never heard of this type of legionaries in the last legions?

How were they incorporated into the organization chart of the legion?

How were they dressed?

Thank you.

clibinarium09 Sep 2021 6:35 a.m. PST

Staff slingers?

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 7:22 a.m. PST

Sound like auxila to me

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 8:37 a.m. PST

My guess is auxiliary troops.

IanWillcocks09 Sep 2021 9:02 a.m. PST

By the late Empire, I think Legions had integral archers to provide supporting fire over the heavy infantry. You also have the Exculcators (Squashers) who were javelin armed light troops attached I think?

Huscarle09 Sep 2021 9:45 a.m. PST

Imperial Legionaries were originally issued slings for about 25% of their strength, then later the legions were issued darts & javelins with about 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 being primarily bow-armed. This WRG termed legionarii skirmishers could just be part of the legion being more lightly armed to act as slingers etc., and possibly these legionary skirmishers also include the Lanciarii?
link

Not sure if the crossbow was used by the military, apart from when out hunting. However, it's possible that the "balistarii" used by Julian were crossbowmen, rather than what is seen as the artillery (Ballista, scorpions, etc).

Personal logo Grelber Supporting Member of TMP09 Sep 2021 10:50 a.m. PST

List 77 Late Imperial Roman, 307 AD to 425 AD
Legionary skirmishers "Regular C" LI: B, Sh @ 4 points
CB, Sh @ 4 points
S, Sh @ 4 points
SS (staff Sling),
Sh @ 4 points
JLS, D, Sh @ 5
points
List 81 Patrician Roman 425 AD to 475 AD
Legionary skirmishers "Regular D" LI: B, Sh @ 4 points
CB, Sh @ 4 points
S, Sh @ 4 points
SS (staff Sling),
Sh @ 4 points
JLS, D, Sh @ 5
points

For the JLS (Javelin or light spear) you can have up to 12 figures, for the others, up to six.
These seem to be different from Lanciarii, the next item on List 77.
In both cases, Auxilia is listed separately, so these would seem to be something other than them

There also seems to be an option to upgrade these figures from "Regular C" on List 77 to "Regular B" @ 1 point each. On list 81, they can be upgraded from "Regular D" to "Regular C."

Grelber

johannes5509 Sep 2021 3:09 p.m. PST

Greiber, but what is the historical proof of these list?

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP10 Sep 2021 1:05 a.m. PST

Good in the 4th and 5th centuries, if the workforce is 1200 legionnaires per legio of 6 ordines of two centuriae, we find 1/4 who are archers ("helmeted") or half a centuria per ordine of integral archers to provide supporting fire over the heavy infantry.

The "Legionarii skirmishers" are listed separately, so their archers would seem to be something other than the integral archers which provides supporting fire over the heavy Legionarii infantry.

Let's imagine that the "Legionarii skirmishers" are indeed legionnaires and I believe it, there are not more than 300, half a centuria by ordine? This will only leave us 600 "heavy legionarii" for the melee …

I believe that the "Legionarii skirmishers" are not helmeted and that the "Legionarii skirmishers archers" are not used in the same way as the other archers which were helmeted.

Personal logo Grelber Supporting Member of TMP10 Sep 2021 8:22 p.m. PST

Johannes55, these are from the lists that go with WRG Ancients rules. I bought them at the local hobby store years ago. For any actual historical proof, you would have to go back to the author. My goal in posting them was to help clarify the discussion.

Grelber

Paskal Supporting Member of TMP13 Sep 2021 10:24 a.m. PST

Phil Barker of the Wargames Research Group created them, no ?

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.