Help support TMP


"Last AEF attack on Nov 11 1918" Topic


5 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

In order to respect possible copyright issues, when quoting from a book or article, please quote no more than three paragraphs.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Early 20th Century Discussion Message Board


Areas of Interest

World War One

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Featured Showcase Article

Royal Artillery OQF 18 Pdr Field Battery

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian gets started with WWI British in 15mm.


Featured Profile Article


Featured Movie Review


680 hits since 8 Sep 2021
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Prof Pate08 Sep 2021 11:47 a.m. PST

Hi

I seem to remember that a General ordered his regiment to attack, with loss of many casualties, despite knowing the cease fire was rapidly approaching.

Could anyone confirm this and if so what Regiment and who was the commander?

Thanks

John

Wackmole908 Sep 2021 12:25 p.m. PST

U.S. Gen. John J. Pershing, who had been bent on continuing the fighting, even had to explain to Congress the high number of last-day losses.

HE DIED AT 10:59

Anti-German sentiment ran high after the United States declared war in April 1917, and Gunther and his family in Baltimore were subjected to the kind of prejudice and suspicion that many of German descent faced at the time.

"It was not a good time to be German in the United States," said historian Alec Bennett.

Gunther had little choice when he got drafted. He was given the rank of sergeant, but he later was demoted when he wrote a letter home critical of the conditions in the war.

Soon after, he was thrown into the biggest U.S. battle of the war, the Meuse-Argonne offensive in northeastern France.

There were reports he was still brooding over his demotion right on Nov. 11. When he emerged from a thick fog in the valley around Chaumont-devant-Damvillers, he and his comrades faced a German machine gun nest on the hillside.

Indications are that the Germans fired one salvo over his head as a warning, knowing the war was almost over. But he still charged onward.

"His time of death was 10:59 a.m., which is just so haunting," Bennett said. Gunther was recognized by Pershing as the last American to die on the battlefield.


On November 11, 1918, Armistice Day, the American Expeditionary Forces on the Western Front in France suffered more than thirty-five hundred casualties, although it had been known unofficially for two days that the fighting would end that day and known with absolute certainty as of 5 o'clock that morning that it would end at 11 a.m. Nearly a year afterward, on November 5, 1919, General John J. Pershing, commander of the AEF, found himself testifying on the efficiency of the war's prosecution before the House of Representatives Committee on Military Affairs.

The encounter was amicable and respectful since members were dealing with the officer who had led America to victory in the Great War. However, a Republican committee member, Alvan T. Fuller of Massachusetts, deferentially posed a provocative query: ‘This question is somewhat irrelevant to the matter under discussion,' Fuller began, ‘but I would like to ask General Pershing if American troops were ordered over the top on the other side on the morning of the day when under the terms of the Armistice firing was to cease … and that those troops who were not killed or wounded marched peacefully into Germany at 11 o'clock. Is that true?'

Pershing answered with his customary crisp confidence:

Just days later, however, the congressman forwarded to Pershing a letter from a constituent with a cover note saying, "I have been deluged with questions on this subject." The enclosed letter had been written to Fuller by George K. Livermore, former operations officer of the 167th Field Artillery Brigade of the black 92nd Division, stating that that force had been engaged since 5 a.m. on November 11 and had been ordered to launch its final charge at 10:30 a.m. Livermore lamented "the little crosses over the graves of the colored lads who died a useless death on that November morning." He further described the loss of U.S. Marines killed crossing the Meuse River in the final hours as "frightful." Congressman Fuller closed his letter to Pershing asking for "a real frank, full answer to the question as to whether American lives were needlessly wasted."

Fuller had Pershing's answer within the week, and it was categorical. By allowing the fighting to go forward, Pershing reiterated that he was simply following the orders of his superior, Marshal Ferdinand Foch, commander in chief of Allied forces in France, issued on November 9, to keep up the pressure against the retreating enemy until the cease-fire went into effect. Consequently, he had not ordered his army to stop fighting even after the signing of the armistice, of which, "I had no knowledge before 6 a.m. November 11."

Prof Pate08 Sep 2021 1:32 p.m. PST

Thank you.

Frighteningly simple process, hiding behind "I was following orders".

But I appreciate the comprehensive answer.

Stay safe John

Cerdic08 Sep 2021 2:49 p.m. PST

Wasn't just an American thing. All the combatants on the Western Front continued fighting until eleven o'clock…

bjporter10 Sep 2021 7:55 p.m. PST

What Cerdic said. Everyone continued to fight up until the last moment.

There were no guarantees that the Germans were going to honor the Armistice.

We now know that Pershing was correct, anything other than unconditional surrender by the Germans would come back to haunt the allies.

Sorry - only verified members can post on the forums.