"Should Milley resign?" Topic

link

"This happened on your watch. You didn't give the order, but you chose to go along and get along. Now a dozen of the men we entrusted to you are getting along to Dover, and we can only pray more don't follow.

You won't do it, because if you were the kind of men who would do it you would not have to be told to do it. But you should do it. It might save a little shred of your dignity. Rip those stars off your shoulders and throw them down on the Resolute desk.

Resign."

Agree or disagree? (Schlichter is a retired US Army infantry colonel.)

I'm not a US citizen, but the whole thing is crap. Let alone Bagram, why was there not a ring thrown around Kabul prior to this happening? And a Marine Lt Colonel gets the sack for saying what is thought; the brass are useless.

Same as Australia when the SAS thing came out. yes, there may be grounds for some investigations but the useless friggin brass are only interested in being woke and doing what the govt wants. In my day, the role of an officer was to stand up for his men, if you didn't do that you were fired. Now it is the reverse.

yes and for other reasons

I think she should have retired after "Party in the USA"

What does this have to do with wargaming?

Miley Cyrus?

Pavelft, it does have to do with modern warfare.

And most people read the OP before commenting on it.

Doc mcb I read it. You posted an inflammatory opinion piece, that has a direct political agenda. Couching that as pertaining to modern warfare is more than a stretch. If you wanna have a conversation about politics do it in the blue fez.

Should Miley resign?

I honestly don't know the answer to that. The position of CJSC is that of advisor to the President. CJSC is an administrative and managerial position. The direct operational chain-of-command starts at the President, than SecDef, then the COCOM (who in this case is the CENTCOM commander and then down from there. I would say the CJSC does share some responsibility. What did he advise? On an unrelated topic I didn't care for his answers to Congress about teaching CRT in the military. He came across as weak; I would have liked him to tell Congress to pound sand and wokeness has no place in combat.

Who…?

Yes, it was an opinion piece. I asked who agreed and who did not. Accountability in disaster is a pretty important principle; how does it apply in this case?

No as much as I don't really like Milley.[he probably wouldn't like me either!] His and the Sec Def's, pushing CRT, etc., in the military took away from valuable time, etc., to be used in warfighting skills, etc. As a former Rifle/81mm Mortar PL and Mech Co. I understand how important good training and the time to do it is …

However, no matter what Milley, intel guys, etc., briefed to the top guy in charge. The Top Guy is CinC. We as officers, NCOs, and soldiers took an oath to follow the orders of POTUS, etc. As long as they were legal/lawful orders we have to follow them. That is the way the system has worked well since Day 1, AFAIK.

I have a very hard time thinking Milley, Intel guys, etc. said it was a good idea to abandon Bagram.

Or ignore the intel that had said for months the Taliban/AQ were on a general offensive.

Or pull out troops before civilians.

IMO …we all know where "the buck stopped" … it was not Milley, etc.

IMO the Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves with all the poor decisions being made at the very top.

Didn't say something about lions lead by rabbits ?

Or …

"War is nothing but a continuation of politics with the admixture of other means."
― Carl von Clausewitz, On War

I'm with rvandusen on this. She's taken it so far that I'm expecting to see Tango post a coolminiornot of her on a wrecking ball.

This is totally Blue Fez territory. I would hate to see this topic become a poll question.

Our military doesn't really have the tradition of resigning. It makes much more sense in a European style democracy where elections are held when the country/parliament loses faith in the government. Barring some dramatic event, the Biden government is here until January 2025, whether Milley or anybody else resigns.

Grelber

I have an opinion, but this is not a miniatures question.

Not a fan, but her Backyard Sessions cover of Jolene is fire, as the kids say.

I agree that it doesn't make a difference.

Generals are no longer lead from the front providers of strategy on the battlefield. Resign or not, that senior an official's impact is on preparations and long term resourcing. That approach is unlikely to change simply by replacing a top dog in the military. That process is mostly run by civilian political side.

That type of senior brass provides the context of military equities to the pol's decisions. The pols are elected and pretty much predisposed to either weigh that heavily, or not at all (or wherever in between). Who gives them the military perspective is not as important.

The whole damn lot of them must resign, including Thoroughly Modern Milley.

It will give all of them more time to study White Rage, CRT, White Supremacy, and whatever other claptrap their C-in-C is pushing today. Plus, it will get them started on their Raytheon retirement plan sooner. I guess, in a way, it's a win for them?

BTW when my dice do not follow orders or when my lead generals do not execute sensible battleplans, they get the literal hammer of justice! (I cannot be the *only* person on TMP who has smashed incompetent dice?!?)

Based on the credentials of the guy who selected him and then used him in political ads, yes.

Should NOT resign.

Yes, either his bad decision or got tossed under the bus so either way

Yes. The woke BS needs to stop

Changed my mind. I should not blame Milley for the actions of the Former Guy. And I have already expressed my regret for participating in this type of discourse on another thread.

No way should this be a poll.

Yes, and also Austin.

Leaving aside the "re-enactment of the last days of Saigon" aspects of all this – why is this labelled by some as an example of being "woke"?

You can argue whether The Current Guy should have continued to just follow the plan laid down and started by The Former Guy, but really since it was his plan/great deal are we saying that The Former Guy is "woke"? I don't think so.

Legion 4: the quote you mean is "Lions led by donkeys". A popular (I think British) saying about the way the generals (the donkeys of course) organized battles in the First World War. See here for the comment that this was (in a way) already said by Plutarch (;-)):
link

Probably, though the CiC is the guy really to blame.

The CiC is the one who should really resign for numerous reasons, including: pulling troop numbers to have on hand out of thin air, closing Bagram, and pulling out of Afghanistan on 8/31/21 while blaming the previous guy for the issue(s), like he's locked into a deal, even though May 2021 ended 3 months ago, AND he has nixed everything else from his predecessor, but feels compelled to follow in his footsteps on this one issue (how very convenient for him), AND abandoning American citizens to the Taliban, ISIS, ISIS-K, Al Qaeda, and every other alphabet soup, radical jihadi group in country you can think of..

Milley IS a general still (sadly), "modern warfare" IS being conducted in Afghanistan/Kabul, and the guy agreed to, or made a bone-head decision, and he does seem more interested in kowtowing to the Woke crowd than winning wars and keeping Americans, including our own troops safe. Lower level troops suffer mightily for minor infractions, but generals always seem to get a pass for major blunders.

Given the above, discussion of his standing in the military IS germaine and appropriate.

I'd like to see the CiC, Sec. Def., Milley, and anyone else involved in supporting this debacle be removed for cause.

Time to start with a clean slate, and come up with a better plan to combat radical jihadis around the globe, rather than ceding an entire country for them to operate in, along with BILLIONS of dollars of our high-tech equipment to them to be used against us and others in the region, and to be transferred to our enemies like China, Russia, Pakistan, Iran, and others to copy too.

Porthos, yes I thought it was Napoleon, but thanks for the update. But yes, either way we know the intent of the "saying" … And It ain't good !

He needs to go. Too worried about sucking up to the new crew and not informed or able to inform enough on the current crisis. Him and the SecDef along with Intel. "We just didn't know the Taliban would move that fast". That's something that should never have been said.

Yep, it IS truly astounding how many times our intel people totally blow analysis like this.

Then again, to be fair to them, perhaps they don't.

I imagine it is possible that realistic appraisals are provided by some analysts but ignored, or denied, and our leaders only take and embrace the most optimistic opinions, instead of the more realistic ones. I imagine in those cases, we never hear about the others, since that would be too embarrassing to those in charge, and don't help to further their false narratives.

IMO … the intel was accurate … but it didn't fit those in charges' narrative, agenda, etc. IMO the intel was good … but it was ignored for political, etc. reasons? Or some in charge are just morons … Or both …