"French Provisional reg'ts. flags, what were they?" Topic
10 Posts
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Major Bloodnok | 23 Aug 2021 8:03 a.m. PST |
I want to paint some 1813 French Provisional units and since they were often made up of 4th bns. of different reg'ts. I was wondering what they carried for colours? Would they each carry the 4th bn. fanion from their respective regiment? Did they receive an Eagle? |
Ryan T | 23 Aug 2021 9:52 a.m. PST |
I do not know if these are the units you are referring to, but Ludovic Letrun, French Infantry Flags from 1786 to the end of the First Empire (2009) lists the 134th to the 156th Infantry of the Line as all receiving an Eagle (Second Model) and an 1812 Pattern Flag without any battle honours. All of these regiments were raised in early 1813 from four Cohorts of the National Guard each, with the exception of the 134th which was drawn from the Paris Guard Regiment. These regiments were all subsequently disbanded in either 1813 or 1814. |
Lilian | 23 Aug 2021 1:05 p.m. PST |
There were both Provisional Demi-Brigades and Regiments, of course no Eagles for obvious reasons, such units were only supposed to be only short-lived or ad hoc "march" units and didn't justify a such prestigious regimental flag for this kind of units even if some existed longer than expected these numerous provisional half-brigades, some already raised since 1812 others in 1813 as well as newly-raised provisional regiments with "bis" and even "ter" parents units, until a 42nd, 42nd bis and 42nd ter for the seconds, were actually quite far to be raised mainly from 4th battalion but rather mixing 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th battalions of Line and Light Infantry Regiments |
Brechtel198 | 23 Aug 2021 7:49 p.m. PST |
'…the Grande Armee had a variety of temporary, miscellaneous, and irregular infantry units.'-John Elting, Swords Around a Throne, 218. The explanation of these units is continued into page 219. '…the most common were the regiments de marche and the provisional regiments.'-Swords, 218. The provisional regiments were composed of troops, companies or battalions which had been detached from their parent regiments for temporary service. In 1806-1807 the 3d battalions 'of most of its regiments' were still in France being organized. A company of 140 all ranks was taken from each of these units and eight provisional battalions were formed from those companies. Those battalions were then formed into four provisional regiments to be used for garrison duty in Magdeburg and Kassel. In 1809 temporary demi-brigades were formed from 3d and 4th battalions of various regiments to be employed against Austria. In 1812 provisional demi-brigades were organized from 4th battalions of different regiments and were assigned to Augereau's Reserve Corps in Germany. Regiments de marche were temporary organizations used as 'carrier' units to move replacements to the army and were disbanded upon arrival as the component units were reunited with their parent regiments. In 1810 seven bataillons auxiliares d'infanterie were formed as 'carrier' units to take replacements into Spain. The troops forming these provisional units were taken from the depots of regiments that were not serving in Spain. Apparently, they formed a division at Burgos but were converted to the 34th Legere and the 130th Ligne in 1811. The provisional units above were not given eagles. Eventually, the 34th Legere and the 130th Ligne were given eagles. |
SHaT1984 | 23 Aug 2021 8:44 p.m. PST |
Whatever the terms used to describe them; and how they were to be employed, when they got somewhere, was never a 'system' but rather a series of unrelated events and changes over the entire period of Consular and Empire era, and probably beforehand too given the chaos of Revolutionary goverment. So slapping a tricoleur on a battalion would suffice in 1813. |
Brechtel198 | 24 Aug 2021 4:01 a.m. PST |
No. The organizations employed to move troops forward or to supply reliable garrisons while the conscripts completed their training was indeed a system. Napoleon never just 'slapped a tricolor' on any unit, and provisional units if they lasted long enough would only get their eagle when they had proven they deserved it. And new infantry regiments were not allowed to forum their elite companies until they had proven themselves. |
Lilian | 24 Aug 2021 5:34 a.m. PST |
The Half-Brigades were raised from 3 battalions with the 4th and 6th Battalions but further Half-Brigades created came also from 1st 2nd 3rd 5th and 8th Battalions while 62 Provisional Regiments counted only two, there were others raised, concerning these 124 battalions forming the last ones, there were 29 from 1st Battalions 37 from 2nd Battalions 15 from 3rd Battalions 38 from 4th Battalions 1 from 5th Battalion 2 from 6th Battalions 2 from 7th Battalions |
Brechtel198 | 24 Aug 2021 9:07 a.m. PST |
Napoleon also formed five Disciplinary Regiments named for their locations: Mediterranean (first one, then two-based on Corsica), Walcheren, Ile-de-Re, and Belle-Isle. Each regiment was organized with two battalions. They were formed from the 'better class' of refractaires (draft dodgers). The cadres for those regiments was carefully selected, some coming from the Imperial Guard. Their training was progressively successful and by 1811 they were employed as garrisons. Their first priority was as replacement depots. Some of the battalions were employed as carrier units. In 1812 'a combat-worthy infantry division was formed' from battalions detached from all five regiments. Later that same year, Belle-Isle and 1st Mediterranean became regular light infantry regiments and the other three became line infantry regiments. |
SHaT1984 | 24 Aug 2021 12:17 p.m. PST |
So much irrlevance- Lilian- all of which proves nothing. Being 'created' doesn't imbue anything for leadership or manoevre more than a plain flag. Nothing more. |
SHaT1984 | 28 Aug 2021 4:49 p.m. PST |
>>Ludovic Letrun, French Infantry Flags from 1786 to the end of the First Empire (2009) Yes that of course lists them all by cohorte etc. Really should be in your library (accuracy not guaranteed- but better than nothing before) d |
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