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"Hitler Wins" Topic

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10 Aug 2021 10:28 a.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Crossposted to Early 20th Century Discussion boardCrossposted to WWII Discussion board

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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian10 Aug 2021 10:28 a.m. PST

You were asked – TMP link

Biggest Scoundrel in European History?

And in the final round of voting:

28% said "Hitler"
23% said "Rasputin"
21% said "Josef Stalin"

14Bore10 Aug 2021 11:03 a.m. PST

Didn't fit my description of scoundrel but it's OK.
BTW Uncle Joe murdered more.

advocate10 Aug 2021 1:06 p.m. PST

Of the three, Rasputin comes closest to my definition of a 'scoundrel'.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian10 Aug 2021 1:14 p.m. PST

Yes, I don't think of Hitler as one of those lovable scoundrels.

14Bore10 Aug 2021 3:11 p.m. PST

Rasputin does fit my term of scoundrel

Legion 410 Aug 2021 4:13 p.m. PST

IIRC Mao had the record for "deaths", with Uncle Joe 2d and Hitler 3d … I hope they all like their place in Hell …

John the OFM10 Aug 2021 4:50 p.m. PST

The thread title reminds me of watching the first season of "The Man in the High Castle".
The alternate timeline(s) story where Germany and Japan conquered the world, and split the USA between them. Heydrich (still alive in this timeline) is plotting to overthrow Hitler and nuke Japan. (At least that's what I remember. After all it's a Philip K Dick story.) one finds themselves in the bizarre position of hoping Hitler lives.

HMS Exeter10 Aug 2021 9:00 p.m. PST

Mussolini is sobbing in his Chianti.

"I didn't make the cut."

Personal logo deadhead Supporting Member of TMP11 Aug 2021 4:07 a.m. PST

My immediate thought was Talleyrand, Fouche, Himmler or Beria. Glad I then followed the link to see how many commented on the first of these as the greatest rogue.

"Scoundrel" is such a marvelously antiquated term. "A thoroughly bad egg"

Legion 411 Aug 2021 8:02 a.m. PST

Mussolini is sobbing in his Chianti.

"I didn't make the cut."

He was small potatoes compared to the rest …

John the OFM11 Aug 2021 9:33 a.m. PST

This is the proper use of the term "scoundrel".
YouTube link

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP11 Aug 2021 10:34 a.m. PST

I still believe that German Chancellor Theobald von Bethmann-Hollweg belongs on this list. His political manipulation of communications between the Triple Alliance and Triple Entente was as responsible for starting the Great War as was the assassination of Franz Ferdinand.

Puster Sponsoring Member of TMP12 Aug 2021 2:32 a.m. PST


Bethmann-Hollweg responsible for the assassination? Where did that come from.

On another note, how can he single-handedly manipulate the communication between 6 nations?
If I would have to nominate a main lump for starting WW1 it would be Maurice Paléologue, the French ambassador in Russia, who told the Russians they have full backing by France and are encouraged to play hard, while he told the French that the Russians were pushed by the Austrians and Germans and have no choice. I advise a look at "The Lions of July" and "Sleepwalkers" for transcripts and evaluations.

Jeffers12 Aug 2021 4:56 a.m. PST

Ted Heath.

Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP12 Aug 2021 9:17 a.m. PST

@Puster: I'm sorry if my comment wasn't clear. I didn't mean to say that Bethmann-Hollweg was responsible for the assassination. My point was that, contrary to most claims, the assassination itself was not responsible for the start of the war; it created a crisis which TvBH then tried to manipulate for his own political ends. The crisis might have been resolved without bloodshed if he hadn't altered diplomatic cables from the UK which then escalated the crisis into a full-blown shooting war.

Blutarski15 Aug 2021 1:28 p.m. PST

Go here – link

"The Roots and Causes of the Wars 1914-1918"
John S Ewart, K.C. LL.D.
Volume I (of two volumes)

- for a more candid, informed and erudite review of the background and events which culminated in the outbreak of WW1; it is a very well referenced work.

Forget all the heroic "war to end all wars" and "noble obligation" B/S. The truth of what really transpired and why does not make for very pretty reading.


Personal logo javelin98 Supporting Member of TMP19 Aug 2021 8:18 a.m. PST

Wow, thanks, Blutarski! That looks like a great resource!

Blutarski19 Aug 2021 11:42 a.m. PST

You are welcome Javelin98.
I think that the referenced book draws an excellent contrast between true history and "popular history", i.e. propaganda.


Old Contemptible15 Sep 2021 3:33 p.m. PST

Hitler and Stalin are much more than a scoundrel. Rasputin is closer to being a Scoundrel. Scoundrels don't commit crimes against humanity. Oh that Pol Pot, he's such a little scoundrel, but we love him just the same.

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