Help support TMP


"Thank you Brexiteers" Topic


72 Posts

All members in good standing are free to post here. Opinions expressed here are solely those of the posters, and have not been cleared with nor are they endorsed by The Miniatures Page.

In order to respect possible copyright issues, when quoting from a book or article, please quote no more than three paragraphs.

For more information, see the TMP FAQ.


Back to the Hobby Industry Message Board


Areas of Interest

General

Featured Hobby News Article


Featured Link


Featured Showcase Article

Heroscape: Road to the Forgotten Forest

It's a terrain expansion for Heroscape, but will non-Heroscape gamers be attracted by the trees?


Featured Profile Article

Funeral Report & Thanks

Personal logo Editor Gwen The Editor of TMP says 'thank you' one more time.


Current Poll


3,738 hits since 30 Jul 2021
©1994-2021 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?


TMP logo

Membership

Please sign in to your membership account, or, if you are not yet a member, please sign up for your free membership account.

Pages: 1 2 

olicana30 Jul 2021 7:00 a.m. PST

Just got an order from Spain for £25.00 GBP worth of Flags. £16.00 GBP customs charges.

Works the other way too. Sent goods to a client in Belgium £40.00 GBP customs charge.

Thanks very much for voting leave, you've screwed both me and your country.

There is no free trade agreement with Europe Deleted by Moderator Not happy.

GamesPoet Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 7:10 a.m. PST

Well there is always immigrating to the U.S. ; )

Wait, maybe that isn't the best idea either, except at least some of us over here would have the opportunity to play in your games of beautiful figures and table tops. : )

Mister Tibbles30 Jul 2021 7:13 a.m. PST

Well, I went to take advantage of Alternative Army's 20% off sale on some 15mm and 6mm, especially before prices go up next week. Shipping starts at ~$18 to USA. For free shipping I'd have to spend ~$180. Right now, I can't make that work, especially given how much I waffle on everything in this hobby and play solo.

(Sadly, I assume this thread will get nuked for politics? I hope not. Prices going up with all manufacturers and increased shipping costs is a big concern for me. Darn the supply chain bottle necks! This is what happens when a global economy shuts down far too long.)

olicana30 Jul 2021 7:17 a.m. PST

BTW, I will not name the company but, I've told them to send their flags in plain brown envelopes without tags in future.

I'm going to post about this on my blog. I'm really not happy with the whole thing but, more especially with the lies uttered at every opportunity Deleted by Moderator.

I hope everyone that voted leave gets stung, and stung again, and again…….

olicana30 Jul 2021 7:20 a.m. PST

If it gets taken down, despite my political view, I'll delete my membership. It is important for people in the UK to know that things have changed and they will be liable to duty on even small orders from EU countries. People here really don't know this yet. I tell them and they tell me I'm not right Deleted by Moderator

I'm holding the customs bill in my hand Deleted by Moderator

olicana30 Jul 2021 7:38 a.m. PST

BTW, to be clear on what small is. It's anything over £15.00 GBP

olicana30 Jul 2021 7:40 a.m. PST

Duty is charged at 20% (VAT) plus post office handling charge.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 7:41 a.m. PST

I too have been outvoted by supporters of lying politicians, Olicana--many times, in fact. This being a site dedicated to miniature gaming, I'll not name names here, nor start a thread to whine about it.

May I point out that your nation reserves Hyde Park for just such a purpose?

All Sir Garnett30 Jul 2021 7:47 a.m. PST

You're welcome old chap!… The tears of a bitter remoaner

mjkerner30 Jul 2021 8:01 a.m. PST

Always a price to pay for freedom, I guess.

Griefbringer30 Jul 2021 8:06 a.m. PST

Duty is charged at 20% (VAT) plus post office handling charge.

If I am not mistaken, VAT (Value Added Tax) and actual customs duties are regulation-wise two rather different issues.

The reason that you are paying VAT for imports from EU is that the UK is no longer (since the beginning of January) in the same VAT regime as EU. Thus, for any exports from EU to UK and vice versa, the recipient is liable for VAT. However, any VAT-liable business exporting product out of UK (or EU) is not liable for VAT in the their home country, and should thus be able to offer such exports at VAT-free price. However, small businesses (as are common in our hobby) may not be able to do such deduction (due to not being VAT-liable), and neither are e.g. private persons selling second hand products. Furthermore, VAT is usually charged also on the shipping costs.

Custom duties in UK seem to be only collected for shipments worth £135.00 GBP or more.

As for local post office handling charges, those tend to fall under local jurisdiction and are likely not addressed in international trade treaties.

Straw Plaiter30 Jul 2021 8:18 a.m. PST

Remainers still blubbing I see. Great rant which ignores all the many plusses of leaving the EU – vaccine rollout being a prime example.

olicana30 Jul 2021 8:22 a.m. PST

Custom duties in UK seem to be only collected for shipments worth £135.00 GBP GBP or more.

From the web:

"Customs may change their exact figures but at the time of writing, goods with a commercial value (goods value + shipping cost + duty + insurance) of more than £15.00 GBP are liable to VAT. There is a higher threshold for UK Duty and goods with a commercial value of more than £135.00 GBP are also liable to UK Duty."

I think the higher duty rate might be 8% (WTO rate) + VAT but, I'm not sure the 8% is liable from EU. The VAT definitely seems to be because I've just got charged it.

This is what I'm talking about. I'm telling you I just got charged, you're telling me I can't have been. I have, simple as that. It's not a mistake – you are liable to VAT duty for goods shipped from EU worth more than £15.00 GBP

You can, as a business, get around it by paying the VAT / import duty at the senders end (the one I ordered from doesn't, obviously). I've looked into this as a small business and I can't blame them for that, as it involves registering for VAT and generally going through a tax broker to sort everything out – why would you do that (as a small EU company) to only deal with orders to UK.

The trouble is, a lot of small businesses don't cross the threshold for VAT. Once they do, they have to add 20% extra for their goods to cover the VAT they must then pay in taxes to HMRC.

It isn't simple, it's actually very complicated for most small and middle sized businesses. Because of this punters, and we are all punters, get the bill.

parrskool30 Jul 2021 8:49 a.m. PST

The vote for leaving was very close. The whole process was rushed and flawed. Any constitutional change should require a two thirds majority.

olicana30 Jul 2021 8:54 a.m. PST

I don't want to make this into a leave remain argument. Done and dusted.

What I'm trying to tell people is that THINGS HAVE CHANGED. Things that the UK government are telling us – "we have a trade agreement, nothing has changed for you" – is, quite simply, wrong information.

Good grief, I'm amazed that people who have read a bit of history can't see propaganda when they see it – please, the thing is done, please take the blinkers off now.

Big Red Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 9:03 a.m. PST

James,

Unfortunately every new move or rule or "deal" seems to make things harder for the little guy no matter where you live. Hard to pass the new/added cost onto the consumer when you ARE the consumer. I'm guessing that monetary clout means political clout means . . . Well you get the idea.

olicana30 Jul 2021 9:08 a.m. PST

I can understand government looking after the big guy because, outside of heavily taxing the proletariat, that's where governments get their revenue to do the stuff we demand.

The small guy always gets ruffed up to save the big guy, we all know that. I just wish that, when I'm downed, the government didn't, to coin a phrase, P**S down my back and tell me it's raining.

Personal logo John the OFM Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 9:12 a.m. PST

I'm so happy that we here in the USA can go through changes without rancor and bitterness.

Texas Jack30 Jul 2021 9:18 a.m. PST

I live in the EU and can say the only good thing about Brexit is my lead pile is now almost nothing. It's far too costly to order from the UK anymore.

MajorB30 Jul 2021 9:22 a.m. PST

The vote for leaving was very close. The whole process was rushed and flawed. Any constitutional change should require a two thirds majority.

Except the UK doesn't have a written constitution so how can leaving the EU be a constitutional change?

MajorB30 Jul 2021 9:24 a.m. PST

The issue doesn't affect me. I have never purchased any wargame stuff from anywhere outside the UK.

olicana30 Jul 2021 9:30 a.m. PST

It might if you ever want to do Napoleonic Spanish and need flags not made in the UK – as I did.

Purchasing from EU isn't a common occurrence for me. I just wonder, as it is a mutual UK EU thing, if orders dry up from EU to UK companies, how much figure prices will increase to UK buyers to make up the shortfall. Given that most figure manufacturers are on the small side, and they require a certain turnover for a living income, I mean.

In the end, buy from UK or EU, prices might well go up here regardless.

Griefbringer30 Jul 2021 9:31 a.m. PST

It's not a mistake – you are liable to VAT duty for goods shipped from EU worth more than £15.00 GBP GBP

Yes, because EU and UK are no longer in a joint VAT regime. However, it is worth remembering that you would also have paid similar 20 % VAT for similar product bought from a (VAT-liable) UK retailer, though with less hassle as the seller would have handled all the paper-work and included the VAT in the final price to be paid. Naturally, you would have also skipped the postal office handling fees.

However, depending on how the EU seller handled their business, in a bad case you might have potentially ended up paying VAT twice, if the seller also paid it to their home country (which they shouldn't). Inside the joint EU VAT regime things are rather straightforward, as the seller collects and pays VAT, and the customer does not need to take any action.

Big difference between VAT and customs duty (tariff) is that the customs duty is only collected on Johnny Foreigner products entering the country, and not from domestic products. The charged tariff depends on the kind of product and country of origin – and as far as I understand, for EU product entering UK or vice versa it should be 0 % due to the current agreements.

(Then there are the excise duties for tobacco and alcohol, but I think there are few wargaming companies dealing with the import/export of those, despite the well-known fondness that gamers have for beer.)

You can, as a business, get around it by paying the VAT / import duty at the senders end (the one I ordered from doesn't, obviously). I've looked into this as a small business and I can't blame them for that, as it involves registering for VAT and generally going through a tax broker to sort everything out – why would you do that (as an EU company) to only deal with orders to UK.

If I have understood correctly, this system is generally known as DPP (standing for "Delivered Duties Paid" or "Delivery Duties Paid"). The customer still ends up paying the VAT (through the seller), but should not need to worry about handling fees, import bureaucracy or customs handling delays.

As far as I know, several large UK online stores doing significant amount of trade to EU have adopted such systems, providing them a competitive advantage over other companies that don't, due to customer convenience. This may be bad news for small business, who will be disadvantaged due to not having the resources to handle the required administrative work.

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 9:35 a.m. PST

Bingo
You reacted just the way the Brussels aparachiks wanted as THEY make the taxes.
Note they now de facto raised all import taxes. To feed the bottomless pit of their expenses.
Don't blame the victims.
And yes it is hurting our gaming…

olicana30 Jul 2021 9:37 a.m. PST

OMG, great post Brexit business idea. Figure smuggling!

Gare du Nord. I'll be wearing an Iron Maiden T-shirt (that might go over the heads of the youngens.

olicana30 Jul 2021 9:39 a.m. PST

I paid my taxes to the UK not the EU. Are you reading this, Jcfrog. The tax isn't imposed by EU, it's imposed by UK and paid to them. The money I paid DOES NOT GO TO SPAIN OR EU. It goes to HMRC.

Likewise, when I send stuff to EU punters, they pay duty in their country to their country. The UK doesn't see a penny of it.

Huscarle30 Jul 2021 9:51 a.m. PST

Deleted by Moderator

The vaccine rollout had absolutely NOTHING to do with Brexit. I'm still waiting to hear of any plusses for leaving? It certainly has affected ordering miniatures & games, amongst many other things from the continent, and vice-versa.

olicana30 Jul 2021 9:52 a.m. PST

Lost a Blog follower, thought I would. Probably lose a few more. But, I blog for free: C'est la vie, hasta la vista baby, as we say in Yorkshire.

GamesPoet Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 9:59 a.m. PST

I'm so happy that we here in the USA can go through changes without rancor and bitterness.

Lol … glad I wasn't drinking another sip from my coffee when I read this … cheers! : )

Straw Plaiter30 Jul 2021 10:05 a.m. PST

I see Straw Plaiter is one of the ignorant & selfish Brexiteers, who wouldn't know a fact if it hit him, but swallows propaganda, hook, line, & sinker.
The vaccine rollout had absolutely NOTHING to do with Brexit. I'm still waiting to hear of any plusses for leaving? It certainly has affected ordering miniatures & games, amongst many other things from the continent, and vice-versa.

Lol, standard Remainer copy and paste lines is the best you've got! Water off a duck's back.

Texas Jack30 Jul 2021 10:14 a.m. PST

Lost a Blog follower, thought I would.

You also just gained one. :)

olicana30 Jul 2021 10:36 a.m. PST

So I have, welcome aboard. Note no 'outside hobby current events' on my blog, just gaming.

I see the UK PM has been snipped (see posts above). Deleted by Moderator

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 10:42 a.m. PST

Well, at least it all worked out wonderfully for the fishermen and the good people of Northern Ireland….. plain sailing and no problems at all, just as was promised with the perfect "oven ready deal" evil grin

citizen sade30 Jul 2021 11:25 a.m. PST

Olicana, can you break down the £16.00 GBP charges, please? I've been hearing that Royal Mail has not been bothering with consignments worth less than £135.00 GBP

Griefbringer30 Jul 2021 11:37 a.m. PST

Olicana, can you break down the £16.00 GBP GBP charges, please?

I would be interested to hear them, too. As I have understood, the Royal Mail handling fee for this kind of service is £8.00 GBP (not particularly cheap).

In the original post it was stated that the item in question was priced £25.00 GBP, which at 20 % VAT rate would mean £5.00 GBP of VAT to be paid. However, it is not clear to me if this £25.00 GBP also includes transport expenses, for which VAT would also need to be paid.

Jcfrog Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 12:51 p.m. PST

Olicaba, any government who can bkame something else for taxes will use the taxes. There could have been a free market thing as I think the Brits wanted if our recycled Barnier wanted it. But the main task was to make Brexit as painful as possible, no mattercwhat so others would think twice before commiting a crime of lesemajesté.
Usually, like in diplomacy, punitive actions get to be recyprocical.
And the only ones who do not suffer much are the big ones who have govrt.proximity and can afford the costs.
I wonder what they do to Stl files?

Porthos30 Jul 2021 1:28 p.m. PST

My heart bleeds for you, James (and all the other British fellow hobby friends – and I am NOT being sarcastic !). This however works both ways – my latest parcel from the UK – 21 figures by Steve Barber, total cost GBP 32,50. Added Dutch VAT (very strict since July 1st) and other administrative costs: Euro 12.00. A raise of about 30%. I first thought of going to Salute in November, but worry still too much about the British Covid situation. The yearly show CRISIS in Antwerp I heard will not be organized because British manufacturers cannot afford to go anymore. This is not just a matter of our toys growing much more expensive, it is a matter of (especially the small, one-person-hobby-businesses) that have lost a market in Europe and no-one knows whether or not they can survive.

Porthos30 Jul 2021 1:34 p.m. PST

This is what Tin Soldiers of Antwerp have published on their website (and note especially the remark about the 50% British traders not anymore able to come !):

"CR I S I S 2 0 2 1 CANCELED

NOVEMBER 6TH 2021

CANCELED

From our chairman It is with great regret that we have to announce that Crisis 2021 will not be happening. The pandemic situation without clear view on what will be possible in November and under which conditions such as, how many are allowed through the door, will there be a possibility to organise the kind of shows we had in the past where, let's face it, social distancing is not happening at all. Not knowing if any travelling will be able. Will catering be possible ? The simple calcullation between cost and worst case scenario revenue, make it unwise to organise a Crisis in 2021. On top of that the Brexit situation with more than 50% of the traders that are usually attending no longer able to do so without huge customs problems doesn't make it any easier either. Let's hope that 2022 is a better year on November 5th(I know Guy Fawkes night). And who knows a change in UK politics. Keep safe. Johan, President of the Tin Soldiers of Antwerp"

Personal logo Lluis of Minairons Sponsoring Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 1:50 p.m. PST

As for what regards to me, I watched Brexit with a mix of impotence and sadness – not any trace of 'rancor and bitterness', taking words from John the OFM. To me, the EU is kind of orphaned after Brexit. That's just my personal feeling, of course.

However, as another single-man led business (this one based in the EU), I'd like to drop a couple of reasonings for hope:

1) UK customers still keep being one of my main funding sources. And I pray for them to keep being that faithful in a future.

2) On the other side, as a hobbyist myself, I'll keep purchasing the marvelous hobby stuff made in the UK – no matter what our respective silly politicians dictate.

Perhaps it would be time for spreading some calm among our fellow wargamers on each side of the Channel, don't you think?

As a matter of fact, it is just getting accustomed (you British and we EU-ans) to what Americans, Australians, Canadians and so and so have always done all through their hobby lives.

Or what?

Lluís

MajorB30 Jul 2021 2:26 p.m. PST

but worry still too much about the British Covid situation.

A much larger percentage of our population are double vaccinated compared to countries in the EU.

Zephyr130 Jul 2021 2:30 p.m. PST

"OMG, great post Brexit business idea. Figure smuggling!"

Get the shipping costs way, way down, that could work… ;-)

hornblaeser30 Jul 2021 3:30 p.m. PST

I, as an european with a giga market without taxes at the border, can not understand how anybody can choose to be outside of that. This is a paradox that simply boggles my mind. All my life i have bought scifi books, DVDs and especially miniatures fro UK. But now all those nice people who has a cotagge industry, which most of the UK miniatures companies are, will loose my trade. How could they vote like that.
But on another hand since i saw the perry brothers FPW plastic, i found Schilling FPW artillery. Very nice, 28 mm, and i know the price since they are in Germany, so too bad for the UK industry.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 3:30 p.m. PST

Figure smuggling! Gare du Nord. I'll be wearing an Iron Maiden T-shirt

I remember the Iron Maiden from THUNDER Agents comics! She had a figure well worth smuggling.
auction

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 3:42 p.m. PST

Purely out of curiosity, Parrskool, when was the 2/3 majority vote to JOIN the EU?

And you should see the tariffs the Canadians whack Americans with if we try to sell figures north of the border. Oh, officially the Canadian customer writes the check--but it's the US exporter who loses the business.

Personal logo Herkybird Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 3:52 p.m. PST

Purely out of curiosity, Parrskool, when was the 2/3 majority vote to JOIN the EU?

Historical note: There was NO vote to join the EU, the government joined then asked for a confirmatory vote.

Personal logo 20thmaine Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 5:24 p.m. PST

For that matter – and purely for historical accuracy – there was no vote to leave either, as the terms of the Referendum was that it was advisory only, and not binding.

Personal logo Extra Crispy Sponsoring Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 6:36 p.m. PST

…and the referendum was so dodgy the UKs election commission would have it overturned it had it been binding.

DinOfBattle230 Jul 2021 7:57 p.m. PST

You can thank your government for these taxes. Has nothing to do with Brexit.

Personal logo SHaT1984 Supporting Member of TMP30 Jul 2021 10:15 p.m. PST

I thought you kay had VAT zero tax foods?
So as not to disenfrachise the poor.
Seems obvious they'd do the same for 'toys'.

Or is your problem [you mention clients] because you're a registered business… and it's just a matter of fact that you will enjoy..?

>>I'm so happy that we here in the______ …

It's kind of amusing to see the rest of the Planet suddenly up in arms over such stuff, freight etc.
I didn't contract to be born in the excised 'Colonies' but we've been paying both taxes and 100% near enough freight for decades.

I bought my first non-NZ model soldiers direct from the factory in the 70's, I have history, so knowing this, I take pleasure from the painful squeals… sadistic I know… "\)
~d

bong6731 Jul 2021 3:35 a.m. PST

The thing to remember about Brexit is that it is still in it's early stages and the full implications of it are only just being felt. In the short term it will be bad for small wargames businesses and for gamers in the UK and the EU as it will raise prices and decrease choice.
However, the situation can always change in the future. By that I don't mean the UK returning to the EU anytime soon but the deal we have now could change. Even many leave supporters don't like the current deal and deals can always be renegotiated. Also, businesses will learn to adapt and find new distribution channnels if they want to. E.g. Tiny Wargames said in thier current news letter that changes to EU VAT rules won't affect their EU customers as they now have a factory in Poland as well as in the UK.
Another thing which I think might have an impact is the rise in 3d printing. I saw on Facebook recently that a Spanish figure company, which sells all its stuff as 3d prints has sold the rights for the figures to be printed in the UK so someone here will now be able to print and sell the figs so UK customers can avoid the need to order the figs from Spain and any extra VAT or customs charges that might entail.

Pages: 1 2