"Lasalle 2 Classification of Austrian Insurrectio Hussars" Topic

I notice that in the new Lasalle 2rules, these are classed as skirmishing cavalry (the only Austrian skirmishing cavalry in fact). I have not read the actual rules but was puzzled by this.

A lot of rules ignore cavalry skirmishing in a field battle (which is a fair enough design choice) but clearly Lasalle 2 doesn't.

So why give this ability to the Insurrectio Hussars. Unlike the regular hussars, dragoons and Chevaux leger, the Insurrectio were not supplied with carbines? It seems odd. The only other cavalry I can see that get this skirmisher characteristic are Cossacks, Spanish mounted guerillas and Turkish Sipahis so this suggests that they are considered to be akin to these troops in some sense.

Can anyone who's read and used the rules comment on what this means for a unit and what the rationale might be?

Cheers,
John

Needs cohesion and training plus able cadres. These feodal leviesxmight not be so much able compared to others. You might want to give them half, same as Fr lights 1813 pre armistice.

John,

My thoughts would be that given those in the group you mention as also having the Cavalry Skirmish Trait. Its a design choice, to handle Cavalry that were predominantly employed in a harassing role, via hit and run tactics, feigned charges etc.

As a result, they count as adding a Skirmish Point per unit to their sides total in The Skirmish Phase, to reflect their ability to screen and disrupt, which no other cavalry do.

Regular Cavalry would be both out ranged and too valuable resource to use in this manner, more irregular units, used to darting in and out of action and armed with lance, sabre and pistols would be more likely to cause problems.

Though Regular Cavalry were issued with Carbines, as you say, they were not really used for skirmishing in the essentially pre battle role, as predominately undertaken by infantry. The Scouting and Picketing, that they were trained for and where carbines were employed, were not quite the same thing.

Thanks, I follow what you're saying. My impression though is that, whjle Cossacks and Sipahis might have been used like that, Hungarian Insurrectio were far from "used to darting in and out of action". Arch Duke John said of them that "neither could ride nor manoeuvre" (which was probably a bit harsh) and Arch Duke Charles had an equally low opinion of them, saying (IIRC) they had to be drilled every day.

But we, as players, have the advantage of knowing how our troops are categorised in a set of rules we've read. Insurrectio hussars were deployed like normal cavalry at Raab by EHJ and at Wagram by EHK. There's no suggestion that they were treated as Russian commanders treated Cossacks or as Turkish commanders treated Sipahis, or, indeed, as Austrian commanders in the past had treated Grenz and Freikorps troops. It seems they were considered as new hussar regiments that it was hoped would be up to the task, which they turned out not to be.

I feel like maybe the rules designed felt that he needed to assign them some kind of useful role. I'd be inclined to remove the skirmish ability and simply have them as poorer quality cavalry. If someone can show me that they were used like Cossacks, raiding and harrassing, effectively screening etc, than I'm more than happy to be convinced.

Cheers,
John

I'd be inclined to remove the skirmish ability and simply have them as poorer quality cavalry.

Easy enough to do if you consider their 1809 deployment as representative. I have no ideas about the Sipahis but the Russians seemed to have treated Cossacks in what ever manner they thought expedient at the time. Their flanking move at Borodino being one example.

Its easy enough to make the required points adjustment via the Army Maker Download, if you are into points based games.

They are currently valued at 11, dropping the Skirmish trait would lower them to 10, which would allow you to up their Resolve to, say 4+, for a total of 12. Still leaving plenty of daylight between them and the Regular Cavalry who start at 17.

That sounds like a good solution. I wasn't thinking about the points so much (although it's helpful). More about accurately depicting them.

They were mustered but I don't think ever called upon to fight in 1805, and 1809 was the last time they were ever called up, so that's really the most relevant, if not the only time their performance can be gauged.

Thanks again,
John

The Cav skirmish Trait has only a minor game effect.

It adds one skirmishing point to your army, where 'standard' infantry are 2, better (at skirmishing) are 3.

I reckon all the lighter European cav, chasseurs etc could have been given 1 Sk.

Sam invites players to change the classifications if you don't like them.

If you're playing with the Advanced Skirmishing rule, cavalry of any type can block the enemy's skirmishers from pestering your units – assuming you have them in the right place.

I would still have reservations about giving Light Cavalry the 1Sk as I'm not convinced it was common usage.

Not to mention it just adds to the number of dice rolled, when our players are already considering ways of actually reducing it by half, just to cut down the shear number rolled! 😃

We haven't been using the Advanced Skirmish rules as yet. At the moment it feels like adding work without adding too much to the game.

What did the playtesters think of them?

hi there

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We haven't been using the Advanced Skirmish rules as yet. At the moment it feels like adding work without adding too much to the game.

What did the playtesters think of them?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Mo and skirmisher rules were rebuilt at least six times during play-testing.

Our group does not use the Advanced Skirmishing, but do use almost all of the other Advanced Rules.

We felt it exhausted game time as it forces one side to play hyper cautiously – with nothing they can do except take on risk for no reward – which isn't much fun as a game, it didn't feel right unless playing at the very small end of the points / army size, and probably because we liked one of the discarded options better.

The buckets of dice for skirmishing is a bit strange at first but not really an issue as you only need to do it limited times during the game.

I found an old dice tray was useful for keeping track of the herd of dice. In our larger refights you sometimes have to roll dice in batches.

regards

David F Brown

Downloades from internet a page with 2d6 (tens, units) and stats equivalents for loads of d6 rolls. Saves time.