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"The Hardest Period to Get Into Is..." Topic


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22 Jun 2021 9:07 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Crossposted to Napoleonic Discussion boardCrossposted to Early 20th Century Discussion boardCrossposted to WWII Naval Discussion boardCrossposted to Modern Naval Discussion (1946 to 2011) boardCrossposted to Naval Gaming 1898-1929 board

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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian22 Jun 2021 9:05 p.m. PST

You were asked – TMP link

Which miniature wargaming period or genre do you consider to be the most difficult to get involved with?

34% said "Napoleonic"
15% said "Modern naval"
12% [TIE] said "WWI (trenches)" OR "Submarines"

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP22 Jun 2021 11:50 p.m. PST

Yeah, but try getting a submarine into a WWI trench …

SHaT198422 Jun 2021 11:54 p.m. PST

Not where I thought this was headed____

ConnaughtRanger23 Jun 2021 4:08 a.m. PST

Perhaps because it requires a bit of background reading rather than just watching a Brad Pitt or Mel Gibson film?

Blasted Brains23 Jun 2021 5:02 a.m. PST

So, then, what is the easiest period to get into?

rustymusket Supporting Member of TMP23 Jun 2021 5:47 a.m. PST

Interesting. Surprising.

Personal logo D6 Junkie Supporting Member of TMP23 Jun 2021 5:50 a.m. PST

Probably because of the amount of figs aften involved in Napoleonics

Personal logo aegiscg47 Supporting Member of TMP23 Jun 2021 6:15 a.m. PST

The issue with modern naval is the complexity of the sensors and various weapon types, not to mention that things are being upgraded every day of the year! I know that some gamers say that you could play simple rules like Shipwreck, but those kinds of rules really don't simulate modern naval combat. You really need something like Harpoon V, but those rules are a LOT of effort.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP23 Jun 2021 6:19 a.m. PST

I think that this poll might indicate some degree of intimidation with all the big games/large number of minis/info out there rather than difficulty – I cast my vote for Modern Naval for the reasons Aegiscg47 quite cogently noted

Perris070723 Jun 2021 7:54 a.m. PST

What D5 Junkie said. For any solo gamer the prospect of Napoleonics is daunting to say the least because of all the nationalities and troop types involved. Very few new gamers want to tackle this issue. Say you want to do a Napoleonic force like the French. The line infantry alone have several different uniform, and that doesn't include the many types of infantry. I have read many books about the period and have always had an interest, but I did my Napoleonic gaming on the PC where the cost of playing was about $40 USD US. I would suspect that most gamers who think about getting into Napoleonics are people who are interest in the major battles and not skirmish type games judging by my own interests and the numbers above. My guess for the easiest period to get into would be Ancient/Medieval. Just my thoughts.

Bill N23 Jun 2021 8:38 a.m. PST

I am not sure that Napoleonics is the hardest, but it has to be up there. 100 figures just doesn't go far in Napoleonics. That is without taking into account that many armies made significant changes to their uniforms at least once during the 1804-1815 time period.

Andrew Walters23 Jun 2021 9:05 a.m. PST

I'm surprised by Modern Naval. You need few miniatures, painting isn't difficult, there are several good sets of rules at each level, beginner, intermediate, expert. No rebasing, ha ha. Why would people say it's difficult?

And people had to say "submarines" as a joke.

Personal logo Bashytubits Supporting Member of TMP23 Jun 2021 9:39 a.m. PST

Yeah, but try getting a submarine into a WWI trench …

All right who's the joker who filled my WW1 trench with water and was chewing gum?

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP23 Jun 2021 3:11 p.m. PST

I'd say WWII--or at least modern--skirmish, Blasted Brain. You can play with a bag of toy soldiers and everyone at least thinks they understand what's going on. I've spent too much of my life explaining to educated intelligent people that soldiers were not stupid to have fought in ranks in bright colors prior to modern firepower and communications.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Jun 2021 7:35 p.m. PST

FAKE NEWS! FACT CHECK!

That periscope is anachronistic WRT the pink colour of the chewing gum. Also the frigate in the background. :)

Personal logo Bashytubits Supporting Member of TMP24 Jun 2021 9:05 a.m. PST

FAKE FACT CHECK! CHECK CHECK!

That is a joke punch line not news, ahem and WW1 trenches are still in existence to this day as well as enough water to fill it and pink chewed bubblegum. So Nyah, Nyah, Nyah.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP24 Jun 2021 5:21 p.m. PST

Yeah, but not that much.

And Edith Ann always spoke the truth. If you thought she was funny or a joke, it was a reflection of you! Lily Tomlin was awesome!

Personal logo Bashytubits Supporting Member of TMP25 Jun 2021 8:11 p.m. PST

Yes, Lily Tomlin was pure awesome sauce and that's the truth!

UshCha28 Jun 2021 3:43 a.m. PST

The one that holds no interest for you but your mates want to play.

arthur181528 Jun 2021 6:14 a.m. PST

The one for which all the sources are in a language you don't speak.

Trajanus28 Jun 2021 8:15 a.m. PST

The one for which all the sources are in a language you don't speak.

Yeah, like the survey said Napoleonic's!

No hold on, that includes English!

OK all but one then! 🤣

pfmodel29 Jun 2021 1:22 a.m. PST

There are many factors which make it hard to get into a period, once we get past the interest and opponent angle, which has to be a given. Factors such as cost and room is important, but possibly the biggest factor is the rules. If you go to a club and decide to join a group playing a set of rules its reasonably easy, then the main factor is cost and room. If you have an opponent and you decide you are interested in some period, the next question is rules.

With ancients its reasonably easy, DBA or DBMM is a reasonably good bet. There are other rules, but you need to select a set of rules you can buy and which had good supporting material so you can then work out what figures to get.

Thus, ignoring the fringe interests and focusing on the big three, Ancients, Pike and Musket and 20th century ancients is the easiest and Napoleonic's the hardest. 20th century can be easy or hard depending on the aspect you wish to cover, skirmish is easy, commanding a corps is hard.

If you want to game something that is not main stream, such as naval warfare in the American civil war, or strategic bombing in WWI the issue is a lack of rules and supporting material, thus will always be hard. One, seemingly mainstream topic which is really hard is carrier warfare. You need to go to board games or computer games in the most part.

In the end it's all about the rules and supporting material. While I am not a big fan of Flames of war, I know there is a solid body of work I can buy to help me get into that hobby, that makes its easy.

John Tyson29 Jun 2021 5:02 p.m. PST

I found the Napoleonic Period relatively easy to get started in.

1. At a wargaming convention, the visual aspect of Napoleonics pleased me the most. Plus the relatively small battlefields and the three basic arms: Infantry, Cavalry, & Artillery for combined arms play.

2. I chose a set of Napoleonic 15mm Rules (the old "Fire & Steel"} that could be played without miniatures. F&S had an alternate set of rules called "System Seven." System Seven's footprint was half the size of Fire & Steel's 3-Dimensional (3D) terrain and stands with 15mm figures. System Seven used 2-Dimensional (2D) terrain and cardboard 2D unit stands that were colored and marked as to the unit but without miniatures.

3. With System Seven, I was gaming in no time. I played System Seven maneuvering my colored cardboard units over 2D terrain drawn on light colored mat boards. When I had enough 15mm figures painted and organized into units, I transferred from 2D games to traditional 3D miniatures games.

Napoleonic was my first period. I now also have WW2 "Flames of War" armies, and 1:1200 fighting sail fleets, la "Wooden Ships & Iron Men." However, the Napoleonic period is still my favorite!!

pfmodel13 Jul 2021 3:04 a.m. PST

3. With System Seven, I was gaming in no time. I played System Seven maneuvering my colored cardboard units over 2D terrain drawn on light colored mat boards. When I had enough 15mm figures painted and organized into units, I transferred from 2D games to traditional 3D miniatures games.

Starting with cardboard cut outs is a good idea, but the main issue is the rules. Once you have the rules its not that hard. In the above example the rules were found, which is the major issue.

One idea I have been toying with is converting a very simple board game into figure gaming, you can first try the board game to get a feel for it and then convert it into a figure gaming format. I have been investigating the SPI folio and quad games, starting with Marengo. So far its working reasonably well, the only issue is the playing area. With something like Marengo you need to get the playing area looking like the actual battlefield, which is not as easy as it sounds for a 3D playing area.

I am working on a system which allows me to setup any one of the 12 games SPI printed, but I have not succeeded yet. For now I am gaming on a cardboard playing area with cardboard counters. I have the game, but found a site where I could download the maps and have printed and mounted on A2 sheets of cardboard.

I created a preliminary Video investigating this concept, but the rules have not yet been fully converted. Need more play testing, but its looking interesting.

gregmita214 Jul 2021 2:49 p.m. PST

Modern naval can be hard to get into, because there's a small number of manufacturers, with no coverage for rare and "exotic" ships. Shapeways, and 3D printing in general, have gone a long way toward fixing that.

johannes5514 Jul 2021 11:47 p.m. PST

I had no problem starting napoleonics;I have problems to stop buying napoleonics

pfmodel15 Jul 2021 3:26 a.m. PST

I had no problem starting napoleonics;I have problems to stop buying napoleonics

Buying is easy, painting is hard. I am currently painting up Austrian figures I purchased back in the 1990's and once completed I play on ramping up a French force mix. I just hope my eyes hold out. But my biggest "figure" substance abuse issue is GHQ WWII figures, easy to paint and easy to buy, but expensive. No matter how many I buy and paint, I always want more and more.

von Schwartz ver 215 Jul 2021 5:54 p.m. PST

Yes, Lily Tomlin was pure awesome sauce and that's the truth!

Awesome sauce?!?! Seriously Bashy???

von Schwartz ver 215 Jul 2021 5:57 p.m. PST

As for this poll Napoleonics is not hard to get into, get Austrians and a can of white spray paint and…voila, "The White Horde" lives. At least thats how I remember it

pfmodel16 Jul 2021 4:19 a.m. PST

As for this poll Napoleonics is not hard to get into, get Austrians and a can of white spray paint and…voila, "The White Horde" lives. At least thats how I remember it

So true, but with a name like Von Schwartz Prussian Hussars are the optimal choice. On a more serious note, figure gaming is all about the bling, putting effort into painting figures gets you bling.

Grumble8710630 Jul 2021 3:59 p.m. PST

On a more serious note, figure gaming is all about the bling, putting effort into painting figures gets you bling.

This can be true even if the subject matter is khaki-clad WW1 figures in a desert. With the right kind of painting, you can get bling even there. Wish I could figure out how. evil grin

pfmodel30 Jul 2021 10:12 p.m. PST

I have found for the 20th century the bling comes from the base, nice diorama in short. It also depends on the scale, with 6mm the focus can only be on the base, with 15mm perhaps the figure has sufficient detail to give you the bling you need.

This video details some examples i discovered on the internet, as well as creating myself. youtu.be/ECQB2laE9g4

SHaT198431 Jul 2021 1:12 p.m. PST

Thats not bubblegum; its a bikini bottom….
[Well as accurate as some of the sh#### on here anyway]
First time caller_____

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