"Third World War 1948--the Germans" Topic

Idle speculation for those who favor Cold War Gone Hot. It's a fact that a number of the more prestigious WWII German divisions had veterans associations--and evident (now that some records have been declassified) that for about a dozen of them, the US was covering some of the expenses--something which stopped when the Bundeswehr was stood up.

So presumably the idea was to foster groups of trained German soldiers the western allies could quickly turn into units if something like the Berlin crisis got out of hand--presumably with US equipment, since it wasn't as though we had Wehrmacht gear in POMCUS sites.

Of course, if that just means some German-speaking units indistinguishable from US Army units, there is no wargaming joy. But consider other possibilities: US equipment, yes--but WWII German organization and doctrine, and the equipment painted in late war German camouflage? In 28mm, mostly US uniforms, but with the odd hat, helmet jacket or boots hauled out of the back of a wardrobe?

Other ideas?

Another question, at that point in time, how much WWII kit and equipment was still around in Germany. It could just be that the uniforms and weapons had not been destroyed and could be reissued.

A story told by an associate from back in the 1980's. Around Heidelberg he is detailed to be the US Liaison officer for the reunion of an old German Division that was raised from the Heidelberg area. He was detailed a van to shuttle the leaders around where ever they needed to go to make arrangements for their reunion. On a particular day, as these leaders talked, they decided that they needed to go check on the "equipment" and directed him to drive the Van up into the hills/mountains. They eventually arrived at a large door that leads into the hillside and one of the gentlemen produces a set of keys to open the large door. My friend was scared to go inside even though he was invited to go along. He regrets his decision to not go along, and he waited patiently until the gentlemen returned, locked the door and returned to the van. Let your mind wander as to what could have been stored inside. As an aside, (in the early 80's, I had another friend stationed up in V Corps area where one day an old German pulled up to the front gate of the kaserne with a PZ IV tank and told the MP's, "I'm the lasts one (crewmember) and I can't take care of it any more." Apparently, at the end of the war, he and his crew mates parked it in a barn, Over the years the worked on it to keep it functional if needed. Occasionally, if maneuvers during the Cold War were occurring in the area, they would fire up the tank and take it for a spin at night to insure the automotive systems worked (and no one would think it out of place to hear a tank moving at night).

Fragment from the plan of Operation Unthinkable about the possibility of using German troops on the side of the Allies (reverse translation from Russian):

"Limitations due to lack of equipment.

8. For the following reasons, the supply of equipment may be a limiting factor:
a) Much of the German equipment is most likely unusable due to lack of care and cover.
b) Before the end of hostilities (the Germans) there was a lack of equipment. The deficit cannot be eliminated immediately, although warehouses in remote areas such as Norway can be brought in for this purpose.
d) Armament from German reserves of significant German forces (say, up to 40 divisions) is virtually impracticable due to the lack of usable heavy weapons and vehicles.
e) Even if the Germans come to a decision that assistance to the Anglo-American troops is more in their interests, the production of military equipment will continue to be limited:
- war weariness;
- the state of enterprises;
- lack of transport and, accordingly, a shortage of raw materials.
9. Despite this, the Germans are likely to be able to properly equip and bring into battle the very same 10 divisions, which in paragraph 7 were mentioned as a possible contribution from their side (in the allied campaign against the Russians) ".

As far as uniforms go, the early Bundeswehr units were wearing pretty much identical uniforms to their WW2 counterparts. Splinter smocks, field grey trousers, ski caps etc. Minus the nazi insignia of course.

Small arms wouldn't be a problem, the issue from the quote above is more about availability of vehicles, artillery etc.

YouTube link

Great pics !!! Yes, as Martin pointed right after WWII the German military was wearing some of their WWII type uniforms, etc.

I know a US ARMY Officer who served there around that time. He said it was sometimes a little "eerie". Seeing West German units training along side the US. As they came thru the dawn/early morning fog in some areas. Like something out of the Twilight Zone … 😲

As far as AFVs … IIRC the Syrians were using some WWII German Panzer IVs and STuGs in the '67 war …

old German pulled up to the front gate of the kaserne with a PZ IV tank

I have heard similar with one "Alter Kampfer" having a Mk.V hidden somehow in an underground garage on his property. The neighbors said on a rare occasion he'd take it out for a spin. The BW eventually recovered it and it ended up in a museum IIRC … ?

I'm sorry, but what equipment, in running order, would have been of any value in 1948? Against IS-3 tanks for example? The Germans were out of equipment in 1945, what they had was bad and often had been damaged by their slave labor force while building vehicles and aircraft, or was so badly designed that it could barely drive 30 miles without breaking down. There would have been no supply of spare parts, which had even been scarce in 1944-45. The population had a no interest in another war.

On top of that, we're to believe that the Western Allies, who had found and exposed Nazi and German army atrocities would want to arm and fight along side them?

An easier response to the question of what would happen if a war broke out in 1948 is US B-29s armed with nuclear weapons at a time when the Soviets did not have any such weapons (their first test was in 1949). The US supposedly had 50 such weapons to use in 1948 and the means to deliver them. Another 120 in 1949 while the Soviets had 1.

Page 81: link

Bit not interesting on the wargame table.

"Fragment from the plan of Operation Unthinkable about the possibility of using German troops on the side of the Allies (reverse translation from Russian)"

Do you have link to that document

In English, I can give a link to a report on the Joint Planning Staff:
link

But quite extensive appendices to the report are also very interesting, but I have this text only in Russian. However, the meaning can be quite catch using Google translator:
link

I'm with last hussar. We're doing this for fun, and within the range of possible things, we should be looking at the more interesting ones.

But for German equipment, if you want real German gear, I'd say drop back to 1945 and have difficulties at the end of WWII flow right into WWIII--or possibly WW2.5? You've still got current designs and fighting units, not to mention factories. In 1948, it's a matter of finding ways the hypothetical Germans would have been different.

There is a great series of books writen by Colin Gee The Red Gambit series which follows this line of events. They are a great read.

Thanks for links 🙂