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"one rebel flag or two?" Topic


15 Posts

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Comments or corrections?

Personal logo doc mcb Supporting Member of TMP13 Jun 2021 5:46 p.m. PST

I know Lee wanted ANV to carry just one flag. Don't know to what extent that was done, and don't know about Army of Tennessee etc. Anybody can point me to a quick guide?

Personal logo doc mcb Supporting Member of TMP13 Jun 2021 5:47 p.m. PST

I know Lee wanted ANV to carry just one flag. Don't know to what extent that was done, and don't know about Army of Tennessee etc. Anybody can point me to a quick guide?

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP13 Jun 2021 9:38 p.m. PST

Are you talking about "Regimental Colors", or States Flags?…

Dn Jackson Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2021 3:02 a.m. PST

The vast majority of Confederate regiments carried only one flag. The only unit I know of that carried two was the 1st Texas. They had an issued ANV battle flag and a Texas state flag.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2021 3:36 a.m. PST

There was cheating on the fringes, but largely in the form of regiments carrying a single unauthorized flag rather than carrying two flags. True for all the major CS armies.

Eumelus Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2021 3:55 a.m. PST

In cases where a Confederate unit carried a state flag and an army flag, which had precedence? (The army flag was not, after all, a "national" flag.)

Personal logo ColCampbell Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2021 6:22 a.m. PST

As far as the Army of Tennessee, there were many different styles of flags used by the different regiments, but as far as I know each regiment only carried one flag at a time.

This very expensive book evidently has details. From the cover illustration you can see the different styles of flags. link

Jim

Personal logo Murphy Sponsoring Member of TMP14 Jun 2021 6:30 a.m. PST

So far from what I have been able to find out, it seems that 1st Texas was the only one to carry a state/regt color into battle alongside the battle flag. And they lost them both on the same day side by side…

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2021 7:38 a.m. PST

Pretty most Confederate infantry units had only one flag – that's the way I model them

Personal logo Dal Gavan Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2021 1:32 p.m. PST

G'day, Doc.

According to Infantry Flags; Ewell's Corps; Army of Northern Virginia; Gettysburg 1863 (George Andserson and Ryan Toews (https://www.wargamevault.com/product/123246/Infantry-Flags-Ewells-Corps-Army-of-Northern-Virginia-Gettysburg-1863), 6NC (Hoke's brigade, Early's division) also carried 2 flags- a 3rd Bunting pattern ANV battle flag and a presentation flag in dark blue, which had the state seal on the reverse and hand-embroidered legend:
"May 20th 1775
North Carolina
Deeds not words
May 20th 1861"
on the obverse. There was a white, five pointed star between "North Carolina" and "Deeds not words".

There's plenty of photo's on the net if you look for them.

Cheers.

Ryan T14 Jun 2021 3:16 p.m. PST

In our study of the Confederate infantry flags at Gettysburg George and I found only five cases of the use of two flags. In addition to the aforementioned ANV and NC state flag carried by the 6th North Carolina four other regiments also made use of two flags.

The 2nd North Carolina bore both a silk ANV flag as well as a First National flag with twelve yellow stars in three rows.

The 1st Texas used both an ANV flag and a black-edged Texas Lone Star flag.

The 1st South Carolina (PA) had an ANV flag and a SC state flag. The blue state flag had a white crescent moon and a palmetto tree, the latter surrounded by a wreath, on the reverse side and the unit designation (1st REGT. S. C. Volunteers), also surrounded by a wreath, on the obverse side.

1st Maryland Battalion used a First National flag with ten yellow stars in a circle around a larger centre star. Beside that the regiment carried a presentation flag with the state arms on the obverse side and 13 white stars in a circle on the reverse.

For the most part, the rest of the army carried ANV flags of various patterns, but there were two regiments using only a Virginia state flag, six carrying just a First National flag, and one using a Second National flag. Only one regiment, the 2nd Florida, had a flag that could not be properly identified.

Personal logo Dal Gavan Supporting Member of TMP14 Jun 2021 4:47 p.m. PST

G'day, Ryan.

Are you planing to add books to cover the CS cavalry at Gettysburg? And perhaps the US forces?

Cheers.

Ryan T14 Jun 2021 6:32 p.m. PST

Hello Dal,

It's been several years since I looked at my cavalry files, but at the time I thought my sources on cavalry flags was too sparse to adequately cover the topic. I should probably look again as new sources have since come to light.

One alternative that has been considered is the Confederate flags at Chickamauga. These were quite a bit more varied than those at Gettysburg, but the recently published book on Tennessee flags allowed some additional details to be filled in.

Union flags at Gettysburg have two big problems. Not enough of them were captured in the battle to provide a data base that is time-specific. I have files covering a good number of Federal flags, but the question often remains as to when exactly they were carried. And, unlike the Confederate flags which tend to follow only a few different simple patterns, Federal colours are more ornate and come in a number of patterns drawn from different manufacturers and depots.

Personal logo Dal Gavan Supporting Member of TMP15 Jun 2021 3:41 a.m. PST

Let us know here if you do decide to do the cavalry volume, please.

I know what you mean about the US flags. I will give the US credit, though- in general the state on-line flag collections are really top-line compared to other museum collections.

Cheers, mate.

79thPA Supporting Member of TMP15 Jun 2021 9:23 a.m. PST

Great info, Ryan. Thanks.

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