"Roman Britain's Missing Legion" Topic

Dr. Simon Elliott has written an article about his new book, Missing Legion, for Slingshot #336.

So what really happened to the lost IXth Legion?

* lost or disbanded in the north of Britain
* lost or disbanded in an insurrection in the south of Britain
* lost or disbanded on the Rhine or Danube
* lost or disbanded in the East

Lost trying make sense of the Honiton by-pass I think.

Very funny! I thought that they got eaten by the Loch Ness monster.

I thought they were caught in a selling recruits sandal and disband

The "I" fell off and they became the Xth Legion.

This is old news. ;)

Just read Rosemary Sutcliff.

No, don't read Sutcliff. For some reason, British historians (and novelists) seem to ignore clear evidence that it was transferred to Germany.

rmaker, I thought it was a vexillation of the IXth that went to the continent, not the entire legion?

The article in Slingshot mentions that part of the Legion may have been sent to the continent. It was a common practice at that time for parts of a legion to be detached and sent to other areas. The article's author investigated the available information and archeological evidence on what may have happened to the legion. Without the article in front of me, I am not going to post anything definitive about the various possibilities of what happened to the legion.

I'd have to see the book. He may have something new--or new to me. Seems to be no question that some of the IX went to the continent, and there is an argument from a couple of tombstones that either the IX lasted later than is compatible with a British disaster or that certain young officers were a long time making their next rank. (That never seemed out of the question to me. Someone who comes in late off leave and misses a catastrophe might very well be a little late getting a subsequent promotion.)

The Continental Disaster supporters have trouble putting together a good case for a suitable disaster.

On what we now have, I don't think we can tell. Mind you, it may not be either/or. Say seven cohorts march off into the north of Britain and only rumors or a few stragglers come back. Three cohorts might linger on the Rhine for years before there's another fiasco, or the Emperor decides to fold them into a new legion rather than rebuild an unlucky one.

I think the argument has merit that Legion XXX was so called because it made a total of 30 legions--and that Trajan's next creation was II Trajana because in the interval the count had gone back down to 29. That means they lost a legion somewhere between 100 AD and 108 AD.

Oh. And Sutcliffe specified elements surviving and eventually being drafted into other legions. I doubt she was always right, but I would be very careful before flatly saying she was wrong on any specific point.

Transferred to Belgium.

Just a 'what if'… embarked ship for Europe… but wind blew them WEST… ? lol.

Surviving force… nowhere as powerful as a full Legion, meet up with…?

Actually, suddenly realised that I have absolutely no idea what pre-Columbian Northern USA would be like!

Re above 'What If:
On TMP so far, searching Pre Columbian, the 'closest' that I can get to 'my preconception' is Tango's link to 'Warfare' in the French & Indian wars. But, that is 1000+ years later!
(Sorry, I don'k know how to crosspost, here).
Don't think things will have changed much, though… but I do not know.

Let's just say the Romans didn't mess with the Druids after the IXth had a go at them….

Heedless, I try to ignore the insanity which is impossible matches in ancients, and I'm sure after a time you'd work out that if you're sailing from Britain to the low countries, a wind blowing you west takes you back to Britain.

But if you're even semi-serious, you're talking not just the passage of 1,000 years, but better than a century of interaction with gunpowder weapons--and probably about two centuries of Eastern Hemisphere diseases rampaging through the Western Hemisphere. Your best starting points are probably a book titled 1491 and accounts of the very earliest French and English settlers. Start looking for figures in wood armor.

"1491" is a good book, just ignore the last chapter.

Oh VERY 'what if' ! LOL!
But not too dissimilar to early Norse landing but with a 'chunk' of a Legion instead of single longhip.

It was the loose confederacies of tribes.. sometimes getting along, sometimes very much not. With the Tribes sometimes split into 'clans'… probably feuding and raiding… on foot.
Some 'ritual' sites… some villages… with 'possible' stockade walls. All sounds rather 'loosely similar' to much of Celtic society in the Roman period.
Settlement and landscape 'probably' less developed with more forest hunting and 'backyard' agriculture. (But, forest has had a Long time to regenerate… so maybe larger population… pre those european diseases?).

Huge technology difference… but the Aztecs had a serious go at the Conquistadors… who used the Roman tactic of getting 'allies' to do much of the fighting, (as did the British and French, much later!). Unlike the Spanish, however, the Legion will NEVER be reinforced. Add in a more forested terrain for 'ambush' rather than 'stand up battle'… and the Romans would be 'up against it'! No firearms and only limited missile weapons… unless they ditched shields, armour and went 'native'! Roman kit would be Very high value 'Trade Goods' for 'buying allies'!

Roman discipline and training… well, maybe 'hunting party' natives would have more discipline than Celts! And Roman training for open battle less effective, given reduced numbers, devastated morale and 'ambush' terrain.

As for 'native' figures? Some seem to see them 'in skins'… but I reckon much more advanced leatherworking than that,,, so, probable 'rather like' the later periods… same conditions and 'cultural' traditions? The 'trade cloth' square loin covering… would probably be a 'Status' 'Dress' version of 'workwear!
Wooden armour… have not seen illustrations! But, a wooden breastplate… (whicker?)… and some upper arm / thigh protection seems feasible… against native stone weaponry and clubs. Not too difficult to reproduce.

Well, just idle 'what If' conjecture… as a jokey comment. But maybe someone 'could' make something of it…much 'stranger' things get on tables! LOL! (Victorian Brits on Mars?)!

Ps: Have only just looked at reviews of 1491… and it rather accords with my thoughts! Long ago, (80s?), I bought another book on the period, now 'buried' somewhere behind 'piles of stuff! 'Big Chief Elizabeth'. Good read… but not all that 'depth'… however, in the UK, we know almost nothing about early settlement in the US. The 'fragility' of settlement expeditions was fascinating!

"So what really happened to the lost IXth Legion?"

They became the XIth Legion after their standards were accidently placed upside down or displayed backwards… ;-)

"Oops. Had the silly thing in reverse!"

British historians (and novelists) seem to ignore clear evidence that it was transferred to Germany

That wasn't the IX Legion but another legion that LOOKED JUST LIKE THEM!

Sorry I missed this. I have just seen the result of the TMP poll.

It's a long time since I read "Eagle of the Ninth."

In brief, might I ask what the evidence is for Legio XI marching into the mists never to be seen again?

I believe it was referenced in the Bar Kochba revolt and may have been destroyed there.

The 9th "Hispania" legion?

Who do the Irish claim to be descended from again? The Spanish? The Milesians no less whose name is suspiciously like miles.

The 9th went to Ireland.