"Non-Hoplite Greeks at Plataea?" Topic

What percentage of the Allied Greek Army do you think would be 1) Cavalry?, and 2) Peltasts or other "Light" Troops at this Battle?

Thanks for any input.

A metric ton of hoplites, the Spartans are supposed to have brought about 34,000 helots, these would probably be skirmishers for the most part. Probably a bit too early for peltasts of any number, and cavalry would be scarce to non existent I would think. Persia had control of the north and that is where the cavalry tradition was centered though there is some evidence cavalry elsewhere.

Herodotos says: "All these, except the seven appointed to attend each Spartan, were hoplites, and the whole sum of them was thirty-eight thousand and seven hundred. This was the number of hoplites that mustered for war against the barbarian; as regards the number of the psiloi, there were in the Spartan array seven for each hoplite, that is, thirty-five thousand, and every one of these was equipped for war. [2] The psiloi from the rest of Lacedaemon and Hellas were as one to every hoplite, and their number was thirty-four thousand and five hundred."

He doesn't mention any cavalry, though there is the occasional mounted messenger. The Thessalian and Boiotian cavalry were on the Persian side, and the aristos of the allied states may have been serving as hoplites.

It's unlikely all of the Helots fought, but those that did, likely fought as psiloi, protecting the army's flanks.

There's mention of them getting pasted by Persian cavalry at various points in the lead up to the battle – a supply train is eliminated, and a crucial source of water, the Gargathian Spring, was fouled.

In a scenario, I wouldn't give more than a few units of them to the Greek commander, because the League's usage of them seems so amateurish that allowing more than a handful to be effectively deployed seems ahistorical.

38,000….anyone else have serious reservations about the numbers stated in these ancient sources?

The logistics aspects just make me skeptical.

That would be a lot of sandwiches.

martin

The numbers of Hoplites/polis are plausible, it's the psiloi that are questionable.

Though the Helot number may not be too far off – remember that the Spartans were living in constant fear of a slave revolt, because of just how many Messenians were in bondage to them. It's possible some of that number were brought along to keep an eye on them, or even as hostages of a sort.

38,700 hoplites is possible considering that the combined total of hoplites from both sides at the battle of Nemea was about 42,000. There was probably a small force of Athenian archers.

As with most hoplite battles there is little mention of the participation of the light troops.

My "sense" of it is that there would be little and possibly zero fighting cavalry. No stirrups, no really effective bow usable on horseback, and the horses are still small. Riders would be scouts and messengers. I don't think they were even screening.

Light troops are another question. They were certainly there. They were certainly not talked about. Just as most people today obsess about the equipment of various armies, past and present, during that period all they cared about was hoplites. I've read authors guessing anywhere from 10% to 50% light troops in classical armies.

As in all disputable matters like this I suggest you do the research, pick an answer you like, and disregard anyone who is certain you are wrong. And you can change your answer as often as you like.

"As in all disputable matters like this I suggest you do the research, pick an answer you like, and disregard anyone who is certain you are wrong. And you can change your answer as often as you like"

Well stated!

"No stirrups, no really effective bow usable on horseback, and the horses are still small."

None of these factors stopped other people having effective cavalry. The Persians had had effective cavalry for years with no stirrups and not all using bows. Only 150 years later Alexander's Companions were fighting as charging cavalry.

Cheers,
John

…if I were King of Kings, Amazons would represent 3% of my army.

Only 3?

Athenian bowmen are mentioned in Herodotus.