"This is no "growing pain", UK shipping rates" Topic

So I'm not getting into any sort of political debate about Brexit or anything related to it. Suffice to say the UK is now caught between lofty ideology and economic reality, and the reality isn't good.

Whatever is the actual cause, or whatever you would like to believe is the actual cause to make you feel better about it, the fact is UK shipping rates are going insane and there appears to be no plan to address it. The Covid excuse I believe is total delusional nonsense.

I went on Warlord Games site and was going to order their Zouaves boxed expansion for Civil War epic scale battles.

The box itself is $56.00 USD.

I went to calculate shipping to CT and the CHEAPEST rate for shipping a box the size of a small book and that weighs less than two pounds is…$25.00

$25.00 USD. .

So I checked out Kallistra to see about their 12mm Zouaves packs. Six packs of metal Kallistra minis. weighing again, less than two pounds in a mailing pouch the size of a sandwich is 17.50 pounds, or about $22.00 USD.

Yeah.

Um, I mean – of course many of us will bite the bullet and pay those rates to get the wargaming stuff we want. But many more will NOT. Or simply CANnot. And they will turn to an alternative product in the U.S. Or simply not buy the product at all if they can't get it anywhere else.

These shipping my rates are not "hiccups" or "teething" problems.

The UK is in serious trouble, this will cost your country billions of dollars in lost business.

Well, shipping to the UK is equally insane, so at least the producers there can grab the market away from American companies???

Don't feel bad.

That happened in the USA a number of years back, AND continues to be cost-prohibitive for all but very light weight, and valuable shipments.

Same issue for shipments from Oz. I just paid 75% shipping relative to the cost of a small, lightweight item, because it couldn't be found in the USA.

Crazy!

This is nothing to do with Brexit or any action by the UK.

The USA under Trump threatened to leave the international postal union UPU unless they could raise the last mile delivery charges.

They won and USPS has massively increased (doubling) the costs they charge the Royal Mail for that delivery.

Blame it on your own goverment, not ours!

Mike

I am moving to Ecuador. My lawyer says they hope to have it all ready by the end of August.

I set-up a "test" order at Spruebrothers.com to see how much it would cost to send a standard, 1/35 scale kit to Ecuador.

Shipping, minimum, was $65. USD

I would be pleased as punch if it was only $25. USD

Damon.

Mike is right. I still get free shipping for many of my purchases from the UK, and the rates have remained the same for most of my other UK sales. Some UK companies have most irritatingly lumped my country (Canada) into a general "North America" shipping category, which means appallingly high shipping rates because of the appallingly high US rates that Trump introduced.

As to losing sales, as Baranovich wrongly ascribes to Brexit, I have to say that I haven't ordered anything from the US ever since the new rates took effect. Quite frustrating, but perhaps your new administration will undo the damage?

Luckily living in the UK means I have tons of great companies to service all my wargame needs I feel like as a Brit I certainly live in the best place to be a wargamer.

There is some good stuff in Europe but Brexit and the horror stories of people being hit with all sorts of extra charges has put me off ordering from there.

Oddly I don't often seem to find much from the US that tickles my fancy (apart from Brigade games) and when I do postal charges quickly put me off.

Brexit had nothing to do with postal cost increases, as has been correctly pointed out, it has had an effect on posting items to EU countries as VAT and customs charges are now added to the total cost.

I stopped ordering figures from the USA due to crippling postage costs long before Brexit, my last order was from Brigade Games was for some cops from their lovely Gangster range, the total cost was around £45.00 GBP for three packs of figures, l thought they were worth every penny but my wife held a different view!

I used to buy a lot of items via eBay from the USA, sadly, with very high postage, l have to sigh sadly and move on.

To be fair, the US taxpayer was subsidizing the IPU system ensuring the rest of the world got cheap postage. I would try to cut that cost too.

But saying that – for me to buy anything from the USA and ship it to NZ has always been VERY expensive. The UK has always been cheaper and still is by a long shot.

The reference should be "President Trump" rather than "Trump."

And… don't even get me started on postage to Canada from the US. Since when has Canada become a "foreign nation?" It's less than half a mile away!!!!!!!!!!!

>>>To be fair, the US taxpayer was subsidizing the IPU system ensuring the rest of the world got cheap postage.

Thank you, Brian. You saved me some typing.

Damon
Where about will you be in Ecuador ?
Although I am in Madeira at the moment I have lived in Guayaquil for the last 30 years and will probably be back there by August ..
For the last 10 years nothing has arrived by post (not even for $65 USD) and I had to cancel all my magazine subscriptions . Maybe the new government will be able to do something . there are several ex wargamers in GYE
eric@modamed.com

I have made an order a month for the past 10 months from Irregular Miniatures in the U.K. to Virginia, and the postage is usually around 9 to 10 dollars. Not bad enough to quit ordering from them. The cost of figures is usually around $50 USD to $80. USD It still comes out cheaper than ordering their figures from the U.S. supplier.

Shipping rates from the USA to the UK, of which I do a lot, are more expensive than the rates you quoted in your original post. It is a minimum $24.50 USD for International First Class postage.

Fife and Drum Miniatures charges a flat rate of $15 USD to the UK and Euroland so there is a considerable savings in postage offered to our international customers.

Most companies charge the actual postage and do not pad the amount by charging the customers more than it costs to mail the package.

I now no longer ship to the UK as they now require I collect and remit VAT taxes to them, with reporting requirements I didn't bother to read. But the fact is shipping anywhere internationally – even Canada – has become very, very expensive so I rarely get overseas orders anyway.

so at least the producers there can grab the market away from American companies???

American companies!?!?!? Our US miniature hobby wouldn't exist without the UK-based manufacturers.

To be fair, the US taxpayer was subsidizing the IPU system ensuring the rest of the world got cheap postage. I would try to cut that cost too.

Not entirely true. The US taxpayer was indeed subsidizing mail from developing nations, and ONLY developing nations…as were ALL the other developed nations in the UPU. And in 1969, when this started, China was classed as such a developing nation. So the UK, and Canada, for example, were also subsidizing just as much per capita as the US.

But given the rise of China's economy, and e-commerce mail orders, this old agreement really didn't make much sense anymore. I think it would have made more sense to reclassify China as "developed" under the UPU agreement rather than threaten to leave an international organization in my unimportant opinion.

Interestingly enough, Canada has also drastically raised its postage rates and costs…but only to China. Trump's across the board price increase to all nations was more likely a protectionist and isolationist reaction, rather than seeking to redress a patently unfair old agreement that saw China taking advantage of the whole world's postal system.

Another interesting fact, when discussing "taking advantage" is that the USPS actually MADE a profit when dealing with international mail each and every year until 2015. That is, it billed the rest of the world's postal services more than it paid them, so one could say the USPS was taking advantage of the rest of the world, and the rest of the world was actually subsidizing the US mail.

Most companies charge the actual postage and do not pad the amount by charging the customers more than it costs to mail the package.

Most, I agree. And they would tend to get my business. Unlike, say, Warlord or Modiphius. When I tried to order Five Parsecs from the latter, my shipping rates were about 110% of my purchase. Considering I can buy books in the UK, and get free shipping, with no minimum order, to Canada from a number of UK booksellers, cheaper than I can buy them in Canada, I suspect there might be some padding in that postage cost.

Well, if 3D printing becomes more sophisticated and easier to do, "shipping" may become history. We shall see.

Surely that's ex or former President Trump?

No a president who is out of office is referred to as president as are senators etc.

Raylev3

There are plenty of very good miniature companies and rule writers here in the United States so you are extremely uninformed.
Yours truly comes to mind and whether we are your cup of tea ot not is another question -- but the last 30 years we have sold several millions of dollars worth of miniatures every year so I would suggest have provided in almost every period, every scale.
There is Brigade games, Spilntered light, Khurasan, Reaper, Ral Partha, GHQ, Sash and Sabeur, Battle Valor, and many,many, many more.
As far as rules -- to many to mention.
Frank Chadwick, Arty Conliffe, Fire and Fury are just a few that come to mind.
I may suggest that if more Americans would support American made it may even be better then this.

Best regards
Russ Dunaway

Not sure its got anything to do with Brexit. I just bought 30 models from The Troll Trader in Cornwall and shipping to Australia was only A$7.00 – on an order valued at A$90.00, thats pretty good.

I haven't bought anything from Canada in many years due to postage cost and delay to Australia. Over the last 3 or 4 years shipping from the USA to Australia has become prohibitive as well.

UK to Australia is still value for money shipping rates.

That's President, not president, too, for the leader of our country, as opposed to leaders of corporations, etc., in order to differentiate them.

"Quite frustrating, but perhaps your new administration will undo the damage?".

Ha, ha, ha, good luck with that. Running up our debt by tens of TRILLIONS will not make things better, because the US dollar is going to be worthless soon, for anything except perhaps as toilet paper, since given current vectors between the two, the dollar may be cheaper soon than the latter.

See the Weimar Republic's history, which we ARE experiencing here in the USA NOW, given current pricing vectors:

- price of gasoline is up more than 35% in just the last 4 months;
- chicken prices have increased 50% or so in just the last few weeks;
- toilet paper prices are up 20% – 25% or more in the last year;
- beef prices are up 33% or more;
- feed prices for cattle and other livestock are up 20% – 30% or more – corn up 40% and soy beans up 60%;
- US dollar valuation vs. the UK Pound HAS fallen by about 13% – $1.41 USD per Pound now vs. $1.23 USD not too long ago;
- lumber prices ARE up 230% – 280%, depending upon which values you choose to use; etc., etc., ad nauseum.

link

Things don't look like they'll be getting better, anytime soon, and most people's income is NOT going to keep pace with shocking price increases like that, so most lower to middle class Americans ARE actually now much poorer than they were just a year or so ago.

On the plus side, I guess I may lose a bit of weight, due to the inability to afford most foods soon.

It's nothing to do with Brexit. Until last year post from the UK was in three bands, UK internal mail, Europe and then the rest of the world. Post to the USA was the same cost as Canada, Australia or anywhere else.

The United States then withdrew from the international agreement whereby all countries delivered post from other nations on a quid pro quo basis. The result is that post to the USA is now roughly 70% more expensive than that to Canada or anywhere else classed as "Rest of the World" by the UK Post Office.

I'm afraid that this was the choice of the then US administration. It's not reasonable to blame the UK postal service who are still happily shipping to all other countries on the globe at previous prices.

While this may not be directly to do with Brexit, several UK retailers have massively increased shipping charges, meaning I and my friends have stopped ordering from the UK. And shipping from the USA is ridiculously expensive – that was already out of the question. I was going to order a bunch of figures, but the shipping costs were insane. I bought a 3D printer instead.

Baranovich,

Why didn't you just place an order with a U.S. Retailer if you only wanted one box of Zouaves? In that way avoiding the whole shipping cost problem!

Most Retailers had their Warlord Epic stuff In Stock, and on the shelves about a week or more before any private individuals received their orders in the mail! I know this as all the stores in my area were advertising their in store stock on FB and web sites about 10 days before I received my first box on my doorstep!

The rest of my order is still being held by U.S. Customs, and they keep requesting I fill out one form after another Certifying this Warlord stuff is safe to bring into the country! Today I received my 3rd form in my email, which is due by Tuesday or the order will be returned to the UK!! It was explained to me this is due to a Federal Order which went into effect Jan. 20, 2021! I've been declared an Importer, not a Consumer for some ignorant reason!

If you live in the U.S. then you need to contact your states congressional delegation and tell them to fix this.

The USPS is severely in debt…$160b according to one article. This stems from a Congressional mandate requiring that pensions and other personnel expenses are front loaded for each employee hired. Mix that with stiff competition from private delivery carriers and you have a losing business scenario. If the USPS was a private firm it would have been bankrupt and out of business long ago.

The USPS is not in debt.

The PMG projects it will lose $160 USDBN over the next decade and claims his plan will address this. I am skeptical.

A large part of the "losses" are due to the front loading of costs that no other corporation on earth has to endure.

In point of fact, the USPS actually makes money on operations, and loses it on pension pre-payments.

"If you live in the U.S. then you need to contact your states congressional delegation and tell them to fix this".

Yea, right, good luck with that. I suspect if you can't contribut $100,000 USD – $1,000,000 USD+ to their re-election campaign, they won't have a moment to spare for you, or even be concerned with any issues you may bring to them.

Am I cynical? Yes, but with good reason.

The only ways to really combat this are to either make larger purchases, in order to amortize the shipping costs across multiple items, or perhaps go in with some friends from the local club and again, spread the shipping cost of items purchased between multiple people.

When I was selling Xfinity, the first thing I explained to people was that the $89.99 USD triple play was the base. There was also a $14 USD modem rental, and that you could buy a compatible approved model for $100. USD Then there was the equipment rental, but if you buy a Roku and had our internet, you could avoid that.
Lastly, there are taxes and fees which are unavoidable. That comes to $35 USD on average.

So if I go to Russ's booth at Fall In (as I hope to do) Pennsylvania sales tax of 6% is mandatory.

Why does anyone think that the stated price is what they pay? My Xfinity package is $125 USD at a minimum, if you purchase instead of renting.
My $100 USD Old Glory order will really be $106. USD
You have to bear this in mind and consider.

So if I want to buy $50 USD from Warlord, my real cost is $75. USD Non negotiable. Shopping for wargaming stuff is not like driving 5 miles to save $.10 USD on a gallon of gas. If I need the Warlord Comanche set, I'm going to get them regardless of the 30% postage "markup". The real price is what I actually pay.

It's often been said that there is nobody cheaper than a wargamer. If ACTUAL price is higher than I wish to pay, I won't buy it and get something else. Blaming politics is absurd, and won't lower the price any.
But those Comanches do look good, and so do the FIW Highlanders. And the Seminoles…

That doesn't mean that I won't jump at a good price in the TMP marketplace, or eBay. (I'll buy on eBay, but darned if I'll jump through their hoops to sell.)

Now this is just silly:

"- price of gasoline is up more than 35% in just the last 4 months;"

Let's see, a cyberattack knocked out distribution in the southeast. Travel is rebounding from historically low levels, which the travel and hospitality industries are ecstatic about. People don't take long trips during the winter.

"- chicken prices have increased 50% or so in just the last few weeks;"

Huge chicken processor was shut down by a cyberattack. You were expecting falling prices?

"- lumber prices ARE up 230% – 280%, depending upon which values you choose to use; etc., etc., ad nauseum."

Coming out of a severe housing slump; vastly reduced building last year due to the pandemic; and, you know, winter. When there's no construction in most of the country. In other words, prices are returning to normal.

The real lesson here is about ultra-modern warfare: cyberattacks can strike directly at the economy of your enemies in the way that strategic bombing promised to do, but failed to deliver.

"Mix that with stiff competition from private delivery carriers and you have a losing business scenario. If the USPS was a private firm it would have been bankrupt and out of business long ago."

The USPS is required to deliver all classes of mail all across the country, including places where private carriers won't, because it's too expensive for them. Meanwhile, the private companies cherry-pick the most profitable business.

While cyberattacks do result in short term price increases, there is widespread inflation on many items across the U.S. which has nothing to do with the cyberattacks, so anyone expecting things to return to "normal" is in for a surprise. Shipping container costs from China are up close to 400% and yesterday an older container ship that usually goes for $40,000 USD per day was contracted out for $135,000 USD per day. Apple, Samsung, and other huge firms can pay those costs to get their product to the States, but many others can't. Several war-game companies have their counters, maps, books, etc., made in China and have said that it's been a struggle to get it over to the U.S.

With a shortage of drivers, ships, containers, etc., the shipping costs for wargaming products would seem to be the least of our worries.

The cyber attack had nothing to do with fuel prices on the left coast, and the prices I listed were that high even before the cyber attack hit.

Price of the cheapest unleaded gas is over $4.00 USD a gallon here, when it was in the mid-high $2.00 USD range before the inauguration and acts to kill off fossil fuels.

Prior to that, we were self-sufficient, fossil-fuel-wise, for the first time in our nation's history, but sadly that appears to be short lived. Those in power would rather aid Russia than Americans and American workers, as well as Iran, and other Middle Eastern/OPEC members who are NOT our friends.

Putin and his allies are laughing ALL the way to the bank over this, and their Euro pipeline deal which was approved, while the one in the USA was canceled by the same guy. No doubt, the Iranian mullahs and the IRGC are too.

Believe me it is much worse the other way around. I was looking for a plastic container to keep dog food in and saw a Gamma2 Vault Stackable 40 lb. Airtight Pet Food Container on sale on a US page on Ebay the cost was $45.99 USD but to have it sent to the UK i would be charged $56.68 USD for Import charges and then i also would be charged US $200.95 USD (approx. £141.79 GBP) International Priority Shipping to United Kingdom. so no i dont think i will be ordering from the US anytime soon

auction

Damon
Where about will you be in Ecuador ?
Although I am in Madeira at the moment I have lived in Guayaquil for the last 30 years and will probably be back there by August ..
For the last 10 years nothing has arrived by post (not even for $65 USD USD) and I had to cancel all my magazine subscriptions . Maybe the new government will be able to do something . there are several ex wargamers in GYE

I will be in Manta; I'm sure you are familiar with the place. AFAIK there is no wargamer presence in Manta, but I'd love to find some. I know there are quite a few North American expats that live there.

If there is a wargamer community in Guayaquil, I might consider the trip.

Damon.

"While cyberattacks do result in short term price increases, there is widespread inflation on many items across the U.S. which has nothing to do with the cyberattacks, so anyone expecting things to return to "normal" is in for a surprise. Shipping container costs from China are up close to 400% and yesterday an older container ship that usually goes for $40,000 USD USD per day was contracted out for $135,000 USD USD per day."

How on Earth could this be caused by American fiscal policy? Container shipping is a VERY international market. If this was connected to American fiscal policy, the entire world economy would be experiencing extreme inflation.

"Prior to that, we were self-sufficient, fossil-fuel-wise, for the first time in our nation's history, but sadly that appears to be short lived."

I'm not sure if you're exaggerating for effect, but a basic search will demonstrate that to be absolutely false. For most of its history, the United States has been a large net exporter of petrochemicals. Of course, the United States always imported some petrochemicals for special purposes.

But here's the important part: "An import quota imposed in 1959 (during the Dwight D. Eisenhower administration) limited imports to a fraction of domestic production until 1973."

See link for information on the US once again becoming a net exporter. You'll notice that it's entirely driven by the Gulf Coast. (Keep Deepwater Horizon firmly in mind.)

"How on Earth could this be caused by American fiscal policy?"

Where did I say anything about U.S. fiscal policy? My point is that there is inflation coupled with extraordinarily high shipping costs, which is a bad combination. It's going to be this way for a while from how things appear, so gamers shouldn't get their hopes up that all of a sudden it's going to go back to how it was.

+1 emckinney

I just went to order from one of my favourite UK manufacturers and post is now a min of 30uk pounds, which for an order of 14 x 20m figures means no more orders from me in Australia.

Of course, in deciding to withdraw from the postal agreement, Trump didn't seem to take into account how much US companies like Amazon and EBay have benefited from the international mail system (while paying as little tax as possible in the other countries).