"Desirability of pdfs" Topic

Many rule sets are now available in pdf and print form.
Would you be content if only pdf were available or do you prefer a tactile book in your hand?
For cost, the pdf is abetter choice for gamers(?)
However, cost is probably not the over riding consideration when a rule book only has to be purchased the one time.

My starter question is "is pdf the future". Obviously any discussion will go wherever it goes (marvellous).

martin

Prefer a book in hand. It really depends where it comes from. If postage costs are higher than printing the book, then I will get the pdf. Otherwise, it's the book.

For a good set of rules that I intend to use a lot I will always prefer the printed version in my hand.

I think pdfs are becoming very expensive. If I buy pdf I then have to have them printed and bound if they are large or have lots of colour as to do them on my home printer is not worthwhile. When I total the expense I find that a hard copy is usually better value.

I think a pdf is still good for scenarios or army lists.

I prefer a book to hold.

Very interesting Mr Bond.

Book only

Pdf has the advantage that one can usually obtain it more quickly and there are no shipping charges. However, the reduction in cost for ordering a pdf instead of hard copy seems to be diminishing these days. The cost of printing out a pdf may, however, outweigh those savings. But one can, of course, choose to only print out the pages to which one actually needs to refer during a game.

I like publishers who offer 'printer friendly' versions of their rules, without all the unnecessary colour and 'eye candy' that clutters up many rulebooks today.

I also like books that are a pleasure to read, such as 'Little Wars', 'Charge' and 'The War Game'.

So I can't say I always prefer a pdf or a hard copy – much depends on the contents!

I prefer a book.

I prefer a book for rules I am actually using but am often tempted to buy a PDF if the rules look interesting and I don't feel I am going to play them that often.

I have bought a PDF of some rules and then bought the actual book once I had chance to read and play them.

I do think that there needs to be a reasonable price difference between the PDF and printed rules – especially for colour rules. The latest Shadow of the Eagles rules PDF cannot be printed and is nearly as much as a printed set! If it had been cheaper I would have bought it to look at.

Mike

Mike

-IMPORTANT-
you can use POD (print on demand, e.g. Wargamevault.com). Rules are printed by services close to where you are located. Makes it very affordable to obtain paper rules professionally printed.

Books, hands down! PDF's are ok, but a book is better. I tend to print off PDF rules, so it ends up cheaper getting the book usually!

I prefer a book. That being said if the PDF is priced so that I can print it out for the same cost as if I bought it including the price of the PDF then I like that option. PDFs are good for printing out extra QRS or unit rosters. They also take up less space. A PDF at 30-50% of the printed copy seems fair to me. I also like the option of getting a PDF along with the printed copy.

I tend to buy PDFs of rules I may not play but seem interesting. Books tend to get bought if I'm sure I'll play them or if there's other information in them that I can use.

Cost is a factor. A book that costs $25 USD-$35 plus shipping is a harder sell than a PDF for $4 USD-$12. Immediate gratification also factors in :-)

Books are outdated fast and can't be updated. Therefore you are forced to buy X edition, in which all the units' capabilities are changed. I have no interest in pictures of other's tables or games and absolutely none in how the seller's models look. Why pay for a catalogue?

Pdfs can be updated and my cost to print is probably about the same as a book (paper and ink as well as wear and tear on my printer) being realistic. Don't want pages devoted to advertising (sorry pretty pictures) don't print them. Plus I don't have to cut or tear a book to get needed counters, charts and tables ready for a game. Need more copies for a multiplayer game, just print more and or just the pages you need. Oh you are allowed to make copies? Now you have to bend the book back and potentially damage it.

Mostly initial price, especially if you are only using the rules for ideas to add to your favorite rules. Flexibility to add or modify sections and provide handouts. And frankly no wasteful eye candy/advertising.

I notice that folks are speaking of printing out pdf files, but have you considered having a pdf reader (Ipad, kindle, tablet, etc.) for your rule sets?

You can use search functions, make notations and color important rules, zoom the print size up or brighten it up for older eyes (me!) or poor lighting at convention sites (never happens), easily update errata or new versions usually at no cost, they lay flat and you don't lose your page, you can have all of your rule sets with you in one device, I could go on and on.

But, I may be a bit biased. ;)

Are digital documents like pdf files the future? Of course they are, actually they are the present in most applications today.

All this being said tho, as I look around the office I really do need to buy another book case and get all of these books I have stacked up off of the floor!

How many books aren't you going to sell, thanks to having published it as a PDF?

Do you seriously expect all and everyone interested on one of your books to buy the PDF from you, rather than sharing it among them for free? In a society where everyone expects everything to be free (except for his own job, of course)?

Is it worthy (I mean profitable) to sell a PDF?

From some point of view, it seems to me that only *free* PDFs are worth to be offered.

(exerting as devil's lawyer here, I admit)

For me books. The advantages of PDF are off set by disadvantages. The ease of up dating PDF and so not needing we version for example. This just does not work. When a set of rules are updated it is never just a case of "replace page 48" but is a different book. Using Kindle or laptop. Been there tried that, in kindle the charts are so small so end up fiddling about. Laptop is easier to see but I found kept going to sleep when moving figures about. Yes you can print of " printer friendly " version but those are like the rough printed ones of my youth.

I have just downloaded the free pdf for wargaming Vietnam with Chain of Command, l was so impressed with them that l have just sent them to a printer so that l can have them in hard copy.
The cost was £20.00 GBP so pretty much on par with the cost of other recently purchased hard copy rules.

I prefer a nice book. PDF is handy as a backup, but I usually print them out to play anyway.

Books are the most efficient random access storage device created.

Gamers do like lots of pictures though.
That is if current rule books are a guide to taste??

Or is it Paul Weller's "the people want what the people get" Do read that twice.

martin

Prefer books but like to have a PDF as they are easy to store and refer to when traveling, at the club etc.

I prefer pdf: searchable, no shelf space, easy to carry, hard to lose.

That being said, I like having paper in hand at a game. I have even made flowcharts or outlines of game turn sequences so that the players and I can all refer to the same thing and keep track of where we are, and I will often print out critical rules sections for easy access while playing.

Why would you want a book?! If you actually using it to play, not simply looking at the pictures a PDF is better. On a tablet even better as has been said its searchable and takes minimal space. If you have time to "feel" a book you are a poor player you should be concentrating on the GAME.
I only ever use my own rules on a tablet now (as a pdf), do to otherwise is slower and takes more space a plan with no drawbacks!

In a society where everyone expects everything to be free (except for his own job, of course)?

I owe you a beer. I usually say the same thing with a lot more words.

I like both. They are different media and have their uses.

I don't expect my players to bring their own full-size e-reader. I also don't expect them to be able use any specific e-reader technology.

If you're worried about hands on your minis, aren't you worried about grease, fingerprints, and the occasional dropsy on your device. And the occasional, "What did I just do to your computer and how did I do it?" (Also, make sure you aren't auto-linked to payment for purchases.)

Handing a book around is easier.

On how many devices do you have, how many different pages can you look at simultaneously? Flip back and forth?

Personally, I prefer to print reference sheets on paper. Most of this is not about the rules (the rules we use really don't need it), but the scenario content.

This also allows some "private information" into the design of the scenario.

Printed, or both printed and PDF if those can be purchased together at a discount, or for no additional cost at all.

I find many PDFs excepting the really short, simple, limited page number offerings for cheap, a false economy.

Sure they're nice to get into your hands immediately, but if you print them out they can be very expensive.

Lluis of Minairons valid point. Another way of seeing it is, I go to H.G.'s house and we play a game, it's fun, I know I will only play this game with H.G., the book costs more than I'm willing to pay but the PDF is only half. I'll buy the PDF.

Another thought. Rules consist of three basic components. Intellectual Property, Design (typesetting, Layout, editing), and Printing. For the seller books contain all three and PDFs only the first two. I think both the seller and buyer have to factor shipping into the equation even though it's the buyer who pays.

Book hands down, pun intended. Nothing beats the feel of the paper and the heft.

In recent years, for those of us in the antipodes, postage has become an issue. I no longer buy anything from the USA that requires postage. And items from the UK have to be small and light. Hence pdf's have become essential – I can get a cheap print here, get the printout ring bound, and Bob's your uncle!

(The other option is to sell via Amazon – somehow Amazon manages cheap international delivery)

Book every time (preferably all glossy with lots of colour pictures and visual examples). For me PDFs are the equivalent of a miniatures manufacturer sending me the the metal and moulds and telling me to cast my own miniatures ;)

Thanks for the inputs. Obviously the topic is for everyone, but i enjoyed it a lot.
Of course it is not over yet.

thanks

martin

Why would you want a book?

If you don't know why, and clearly you don't, then no amount of explanation will enlighten you. And thanks for the "poor player" insult too.

As for the OP, books, every time. I'm a poor player you see.

I think Deep horse you are a scally wag and don't even line your books up in size order?
Have I got you right?

martin

Book.

When I've had a PDF supplement then I've printed it out and used that.

Rules as PDFs have allowed me to purchase a lot more rules on a whim than I ever would in book format.

If I decide to play the rules, I only print out the pages needed to play. This is often around 50% of the published pages. Being less precious about a print-out, I can write notes and clarifications on the pages.

Books look better on the shelf.

Long ago I bought a laser printer with duplex to print on both sides of the page. I also have a binding machine. I also buy loads of pdf's that I may end up playing or not. Price is a HUGE factor. I also buy hard copy sets on a regular basis. So rule sets do not lend themselves to printing as their length or large color content make it not as attractive a purchase (unless it's cheap). I have talked with a gent who is one of the larger rules seller in Pdf's and hard copies. He mentioned the giving away pdf's to friends. He basically said that he figured that while that wasn't a good things for folks to do it seemed to have the effect of exposing players to a rule set that they may never have played otherwise. They then may buy releases of other sets he sells. PDF sales are here to stay regardless.

Thanks.

John

Depending on complexity, I've found PDF far superior in play, even if I only have it on my phone. Of course, it helps if the PDF is generated correctly!

In addition to navigation tools, full text search is a blessing in complex games.

I like books because I can re-sell them if I dislike the game, but not so with a PDF. The latter does not bother me as long as the PDF is significantly cheaper than the print version. That is the only pro for books and con for PDFs that I have. Nearly all my miniature game rules are on PDF.

While books are nice, paper is dang heavy, especially the high-gloss used today. Not so with PDF.

I prefer using PDFs on my tablet because the tablet has a small footprint at the game table. I have 100s of board games and wargames, literally, and download the game rules and supplements in PDF for each one that is available.

BTW I 100% agree with emckinney!

When I go to a con or friend's house, everything I need is on my tablet, along with everything else I keep on it. Convenient. No forgetting anything at home. :-)

Searching a PDF ruleset would be a great boon but only if the authors used a consistent vocabulary. Sadly they rarely do so many searches fail to find the exact match you need to answer a specific query or find so many that it takes longer than a visual search.

Books, but I do download free pdfs of games/demos for future reading that I'll likely never play (I can fit a shelf of them on a CD… ;-)

Both: best of both worlds. No question, no hesitation. I prefer a copy in both formats. Cheers!

Like John Leahy (and no doubt many others) I too have a (B/W) laser printer able to print both sides of a page. So it is possible to print the rules myself. If I like a better looking book I can copy the rules to a USB-stick and go to a Copyshop. Since Brexit makes ordering things from the UK far too expensive (not because of the VAT but because of the cost of – in my case Dutch – customs) I only take pdf-files now.

Oh, and Martin: this is the reason I am eagerly awaiting the pdf-files for the Mexican Recolution ;-))

So, if I like rule books, that makes me a poor player. Huh, I did not know that.

I'm going to start using a virtual dice roller so I can have better outcomes too! Awesome!

Book. PDF is fine for rules I want to have a quick look at, but for reading a book is miles better than a PDF. Reading for any length of time on a tablet is uncomfortable and the contrast is way better on a printed book. It is also usually much quicker to leaf through a book to find something than to search on a tablet.
On those occasions where I have had both book and PDF on the iPad by the table, I've found I never use the iPad because using the book is so much nicer.

While I prefer a book, I also have come to appreciate PDFs also. I have a PDF editor on my computer, so I can cut and paste from PDF to text documents, which allows me to prepare detailed unit lists with the special rules listed along with the unit stats (especially useful in Barons War). It also allows me to put together cheat sheets for easy reference with rules applicable to different scenarios.

So, yeah, my vote is for both.

Hello Porthos

Mexican revolution rules very soon.
Possibly pdf only??

martin

PDF, printed and then spiral bound.

I like a PDF to check out if the rules are ones I want to use and if they are I will buy the paper version. That assumes the PDF is considerably cheaper.