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"What if Anyone Won the War of 1812?" Topic


15 Posts

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Tango0122 May 2021 9:37 p.m. PST

So… a draw…

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Armand

Dave Jackson Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2021 8:16 a.m. PST

Well…ok…here goes. The US achieved none of its objectives…so, the British technically won. They had no interest in conquering the US, rather…just to weather the storm.

The war forced the US to become much more of a united country better defining States rights etc. "Canadians" won by not becoming Americans, allowing the country to develop along different lines than its southern neighbour. "Peace, order and good government" rather than "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"

RudyNelson23 May 2021 10:45 a.m. PST

America made significant territorial gains in the South. Positive results is not all about what happens in the North. Some folks need to be objective. The strong Moscogee Creek Confederation hold on the Southeast that blocked American expansion into Alabama, Florida and Georgia began to show cracks. America secured Pensacola and West Florida immediately and placed them in a position to isolate and secure the rest of Florida in a few years.
The Alabama territory was essential to securing a connection to Louisiana and New Orleans. Even more important was the acquisition of the gold fields in East Alabama and west Georgia. The gold fields would remain the most active in America until 1849 and the California gold rush.
It also opened the way for expansion into Texas. S
So saying America lost is not right.

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2021 12:08 p.m. PST

They had no interest in conquering the US, rather…just to weather the storm.

Then why, when they invaded Louisiana in late 1814 at New Orleans, they had with the expedition administrative personnel to take over the running of the city?

And the first British position at the treaty talks did the British commissioners insist on holding the US territory that they occupied before the defeats of 1814?

Dave Jackson Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2021 12:22 p.m. PST

Negotiating tactic?

Good expansion and detail, Rudy, for what I was tryimg to say in my second bit (obviously too broadly!). They did lose in the North but made significant gains in the South that really secured the US as a nation.

John the OFM23 May 2021 2:46 p.m. PST

When you invade someone, it makes sense to have plans for what to do with the territory afterwards.
There are the generals who conquer and the diplomats who give it all back.

Tango0123 May 2021 3:51 p.m. PST

Thanks!

Armand

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP23 May 2021 4:00 p.m. PST

It could be argued that the US won because i) gains in the South and ii) more unified coming out of the war

It could be argued that the Canadian won because i) US forces were beaten out of any territory they invaded in Canada and ii) more unified coming out of the war

It could be argued that the British won because they didn't lose

However, it is really clear the the Native Americans lost – no matter which side they were on

Tango0124 May 2021 12:06 a.m. PST

Glup!….


Armand

Oddball24 May 2021 2:20 a.m. PST

I have conversational knowledge of the War of 1812, maybe a bit more.

RudyNelson, never really heard about the advancements in the Southeast. Thank you for sharing that. Very informative, yet concise.

I agree that the biggest loser in the war was the Native Americans.

The 500 nations were doomed to defeat over time, just could not compete with European technology, industry and population expansion while theirs was declining.

Legionarius24 May 2021 4:53 p.m. PST

This is one of the few wars where everyone won.(Except for the dead.)

Grelber25 May 2021 8:44 p.m. PST

It even worked out well for the British. They would have needed more ships and men to follow up on Plattsburg and New Orleans (if they had won). The troops would have been in mid-Atlantic or even in Canada in March 1815 when Napoleon returned for the 100 Days.

Grelber

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP28 May 2021 2:06 p.m. PST

Good expansion and detail, Rudy, for what I was tryimg to say in my second bit (obviously too broadly!). They did lose in the North but made significant gains in the South that really secured the US as a nation.

The British negotiating position changed drastically, with Wellington's urging, because they lost in the north, especially at Plattsburg and Baltimore, along with the excellent US performance on the Niagara frontier where the British lost twice (Chippawa and Fort Erie) and were fought to a bloody draw at Lundy's Lane.

ferg98104 Sep 2021 5:44 a.m. PST

The British won the War of 1812

Brechtel198 Supporting Member of TMP05 Sep 2021 6:34 a.m. PST

That's a little difficult to support because of the campaigns of 1814 on the Niagara peninsula, Plattsburg, Baltimore, and New Orleans.

I would say that the war was a draw, and that it established the US Navy as a respected naval organization based on the combat record during the war in both ship-to-ship engagements and the two fleet actions on the lakes in 1813 and 1814.

And it should be noted that the US Army 'grew up' and performed excellently in the above mentioned campaigns, winning more than they lost.

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